Coptic Fayumic ms. - Papyrus Michigan 3520

[Steven Avery]

Facebook - Pure Bible
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/posts/4043679082390617/?comment_id=4349753321783190

Here is info on an early Coptic ms. with only the earthly witnesses.
⁠
In Defense of the Authenticity of 1 John 5:7
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bib...enticity-of-1-john-5-7-t6020-s520.html#p82501
⁠
Ann Arbor Library, Michigan University
Library P. 3520 [Papyrus Michigan 3520]
Coptic Fayumic dialect F4
(circa. 4-5th century C.E.)
Page 57r, 1st John 5:1, 2-9
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/a/apis?s...humbfull;rgn1=apis_pn;select1=phrase;q1=16722
⁠
Nothing particularly surprising, it can make discussions of early mss.

Puzanto offers a techie comment.

I am not a fun of the KJV also presents some errors but for me this papyrus cannot be taken as evidence against the Comma queato I wrote about 8 9 months ago on this papyrus for me there are some oddities and suspicious translation arrangements: As an example, the Michigan Papyrus 3520 (4th-5th century) in 1 Jn 5, 7-8 reads in the Fayyumic dialect: "ⲞⲨⲀⲚ Ⲅ̅ ⲈⲖ ⲘⲈⲦⲢⲎ ⲠⲈ[Ⲡ̅Ⲙ̅Ⲁ̅ Ⲙ]Ⲛ ⲠⲘⲀⲨ ⲘⲚ ⲠⲈⲤ[ⲚⲀϤ ⲀⲨⲰ] ⲠⲈⲒⲄ̅ ⲀⲨⲔⲎ ϨⲈⲚ ⲞⲨⲈ[Ⲓ]" translation “All three testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three agree " . In this case, (if in the Greek we have εις and εν) in the Coptic fayumico it is rendered: one as a number (ⲞⲨⲈ [Ⲓ]) and the plural indefinite article (Ϩ ⲈⲚ), but it does not present the causal conjunction Ϫ Ⲉ (Trad. ''BECAUSE'' ; conjunction that also exists in this dialect since it is also used in the previous sentences, for example, Because the Spirit is Truth: ϪⲈ ⲠⲈⲠ̅Ⲙ̅Ⲁ̅ ⲞⲨ[ⲘⲈⲒ Ⲡ]Ⲉ) or any other conjunction; German translation: Hans-Martin Schenke, Papyrus Michigan 3520 und 6868 (a) Instead this is present in the Coptic-Sahidic versions see also VII century manuscript and VIII / IX century manuscript (folio 14 r, 2nd column, line 6-13): "... ϪⲈ ⲠⲈⲠⲚⲈⲨⲘⲀ ⲠⲈ ⲦⲘⲈ ϪⲈ ⲠϢⲞⲘⲦ ⲈⲢ ⲘⲚⲦⲢⲈ ⲠⲈⲠⲚⲈⲨⲘⲀ ⲘⲚ ⲠⲘⲞⲞⲨ ⲘⲚ ⲠⲈⲤⲚⲞϤ ⲀⲨⲰ ⲠⲈⲒϢⲞⲘⲦ ⲞⲨⲀ ⲚⲈ" which more rightly have a version with the causal: «... because the Spirit is The Truth. Because three testify to the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are one

Inviato dal mio MRD-LX1 utilizzando Tapatalk

the manuscript 14r 2 colmn line 6-13:
https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Borg.copt.109.cass.XVII.fasc.63

And Matt13weedhacker goes into some more with Puxanto.

=========================

Earlier


1 John 5:7-8 Comma Johanneum – Ann Arbor, Michigan University, Library P. 3520 [Papyrus Michigan 3520] Coptic Fayumic, Dialect F4 [V4], (circa. 4-5th century C.E.)
https://thefathersmonarchy.wordpres...ayumic-dialect-f4-v4-circa-4-5th-century-c-e/

1 John 5:7-8 Comma Johanneum – Berlin MS. Or. 408 (= British Library, London, Or. 3518) [(Coptic Sahidic)] (circa. 4th century C.E.)
https://thefathersmonarchy.wordpres...or-3518-coptic-sahidic-circa-4th-century-c-e/

 

[Puxanto]

to this add the presence of A POSSIBLE DIACRITIC MARKER (ALWAYS IF IT IS AND NOT A LETTER OR A BURNING OF PAPYRUS) for mattew13 could refer to ϪⲈ
missing which, however, I told him that between ⲠⲈ and ⲞⲨⲀⲚ there would be space to put it without the need for the marker (ALWAYS '' '' '' IF '' '' '' IS A MARKER)
Therefore '' '' IF '' '' '' is a marker is for ''''ϪⲈ'''' or for ''''Comma Johanneum'''': https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bib...he-authenticity-of-1-john-5-7-t6020-s550.html

 

[Steven Avery]

Hi Puxanto,

I have been watching the discussion on the contra forum.

If I understand you right, the diacritic marker could be a symbol to show the presence of the heavenly witnesses?

And that the Coptic grammar might support this as well, in a manner similar to the Middleton argument on the Greek. (He said that the specific article use in the Greek shows that the earthly witnesses really are pointing back to the heavenly witnesses, even if that verse is removed.)

Would you compare that to the theories related to Codex Vaticanus and its distigme, in the context of the arguments of Philip Barton Payne?

And I can give more background if that will help.

Steven

 

[Puxanto]

Look that you are talking to a not-expert but if you want I can try to make you an interlinear to see if it respects the structure of the Greek articles in verses 1 John 5, 5 and 1 John 5,6 the one where it says that TEXT GREEK:''''''''''Jesus came with water and blood not with water only but with ''''THE''' water and '''THE''' blood ecc.
In the case of the fayumico, however, he does the opposite, first he puts those with the definite article then those without plus minus like this TEXT FAYUMIC: He came with ''THE'' water and ''THE'' blood not only with water but with water and blood...

Therefore the element of definite articles and indefinite articles is always there

if you want I can write you the specific terms
Se vuoi ti scrivo anche i termini appositi


And yes mark diacritic '' IF'' in the michigan is a mark and' 'IF'' mark =Comma Johanneum and not the because
Michigan(4 cent/5 cent) =Vaticanus(4 cent)

 

[Puxanto]

Update by a Catholic:
the sign in question which is a ''supposed'' circle with a supposed deletion ''in the center'' and dots (''if it is not a grain of the image'') towards the letter of John in the center is in the line of (ecclesiastes 8, 12):
ϨⲀⲐⲎ ⲘⲪ̅Ϯ̅ on the one hand and (trad lit. on front / before God) and on the other there is the text
(1 John 5, 6-7):ⲠⲈⲠ̅Ⲙ̅Ⲁ̅ ⲞⲨⲘⲈⲒ ⲠⲈ. ⲞⲨⲀⲚ Ⲅ̅ ⲈⲖ (trad. Spirit is Truth. They are / all three are / do): therefore that it refers to the Comma is very probable and it is possible that the scribe gave a clue in this way ...
if I have time I also put an image in it so you can see how they are on the same line

 

[Puxanto]