Greek mss. 2247 (GA 465) and 871 (GA 62) (Richard Simon) and other scholia

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Richard Simon
https://books.google.com/books?id=nYzPAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA2
https://books.google.com/books?id=bds7AAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA2
https://archive.org/details/criyo00simo/page/2/mode/2up?q=2247
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A60241.0001.001/1:6.1

1661556836217.png


Matt indicates a possible error above and in Newton:
thefathersmonarchy.wordpress.com

1 John 5:7-8 Comma Johanneum – the missing (?) Richard Simmon manuscripts – where are they?

Someone over here: Raised this question: *** Yet where is this Matthaei manuscript now? *** (And those referenced by Richard Simon.) Here are the Richard Simon manuscripts. Bibliothèque nati…
thefathersmonarchy.wordpress.com thefathersmonarchy.wordpress.com

PLEASE NOTE: The text: ἐν τῇ γῇ “in the earth” referenced above, and by Richard Simon himself, is not found in the manuscripts Bible text. This was a mistake.

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Orme quotes Simon
https://books.google.com/books?id=xacXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA13

Two Notable Corruptions (Matt also has a picture section)
Newton
1754
https://books.google.com/books?id=B4wkE_dtUGEC&pg=PA16
1785
https://books.google.com/books?id=zhQdMv8vAdAC&pg=PA501
1803
https://books.google.com/books?id=YsMPAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA191
1812
https://books.google.com/books?id=wX40Xsqc27EC&pg=PA48
1823
http://books.google.com/books?id=RwfnYzTYJHoC&pg=PA244

Porson
https://books.google.com/books?id=uNOLTFNl2_IC&pg=PA200

... I John v. 8. of the Trinity? The words seem to convey at least a more mystical meaning than most of the other quotations. If he thought that such arguments as the Israelites thrice bending the neck, Elijah’s thrice breathing, Paul’s being rapt into the third heaven, &c. had made an impression on his antagonist, he might with equal modesty expect, that he would be completely vanquished with this testimony.

It cannot be said, that this interpretation was not current among the Greeks, when Simon found it in the margin of two Mss. and Mr. Matthaei in a third. The latter scholium is this:

“Three in the masculine gender, in token of the Trinity : the spirit, of the Godhead ; the water, of the enlightening knowlege to mankind, by the spirit; the blood, of the incarnation.”

These Mss. are of the tenth and eleventh centuries. Now if this explanation could thus creep into the copies, and be recorded by the scribes as a valuable memorandum, I should be surprised to find that no author had met with it in the margin of his Mss. or in the works of the holy Doctors, or in conversation ; or that, having met with it, he should impiously suffer it to rust in his possession, instead of employing it in the service of religion.

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Afawk, this important scholium has not been identified today.
However, this gives us the text!

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Thus, putting aside the normal Porson circularity, (and drunken stupor sarcasm) there was an attempt to account for the grammatical solecism.

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Burgess
https://archive.org/details/lettertoclergyof00burg/page/66/mode/1up

Turton
https://books.google.com/books?id=F_IoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA92
p. 92-97 p. 115 p. 122

Orme

1828 Christian Remembrancer (Turton)
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZPIDAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA144

=========================

Teunis Van Lopik - - 2247=Scholz 114A etc - 2318
Yahoogroups, in an email archive.

Matt
https://thefathersmonarchy.wordpres...ng-richard-simmon-manuscripts-where-are-they/

1 John 5:7-8 Comma Johanneum – the missing (?) Richard Simmon manuscripts – where are they?​


Someone over here:
http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2020/01/the-greek-manuscripts-of-comma.html
Raised this question:

*** Yet where is this Matthaei manuscript now? ***
(And those referenced by Richard Simon.)
Click to expand...

Here are the Richard Simon manuscripts.
Bibliothèque nationale de France. Département des manuscrits. Grec 57 [mss 2247] (circa. 10th-11th century C.E.)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10722175d.image

And:
Bibliothèque nationale de France. Département des manuscrits. Grec 60 [Colbert’s Library mss 871] (circa. 13th-14th century C.E.)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b107227156.image

(Many PICS follow)

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RGA - p. 186
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BCEME p. 148
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After a thorough review of the manuscript evidence for the comma, Simon concluded that the Greeks, like the Latins, had a tradition of interpreting the water, Spirit and blood of 1 Jn 5:8 allegorically as a reference to the Trinity.
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Facebook - Textus Receptus Academy
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/2181135479398969/

https://www.facebook.com/Nickolas.Sayers/posts/10243267630936414

Randy Eckman posted to Nick Sayers

Nick, I have had great success so far.
Can you check on the 3 marginal notes from
GA465 p. 66 left page, left column, 13th line down, 1 John 5:7 Comma missing, three Marginal notes present.
I think these are significant.
1st note is next to 1 John 5:7,
2nd note is next to 1 John 5:8
3rd note is next to 1 John 5:6
https://collections.csntm.org/manuscripts/MNTGRCGA465


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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
The early manuscript designated as Colbert 871 is GA 62 (Minuscule 62 in the Gregory-Aland system). [1]
Context and History
  • The Manuscript: It is a 14th-century Greek minuscule manuscript containing the Acts of the Apostles, the Catholic epistles, and the Pauline epistles. [1, 2]
  • The Shelf Number: Originally a part of the famous library of Jean-Baptiste Colbert (cataloged as Colbert 871), it later entered the French Royal Library. Today, it is housed in the Bibliothèque nationale de France under the shelf number Grec 60. [1]
  • Alternative Sigla: Prior to the standardized Gregory-Aland system, it was historically cited in text-critical works (such as those by Griesbach and Wettstein) as Act. 62 or Paul. 67. [1, 2]
If you are researching this text-critical history, I can help you locate its von Soden numbering or look up its specific readings for variants like the Johannine Comma. [1]
  • Paris. Bibliothèque nationale de France, Département des ...
    (1) Epistolæ catholicæ VII ; —. Pauli epistolæ (41), cum prologis et brevibus scholiis, initio et fine mutilus codex ; —. (126) In...
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
GA 465
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuscule_465
The codex contains the text of the Acts of the Apostles, Catholic epistles, and Pauline epistles
...
The manuscript was slightly examined and described by Scholz, Paulin Martin,[6] and C. R. Gregory (1885). According to Scholz, it was formerly indexed in the National Library as Gr. 2247. Isaac Newton cites it by that call number in his discussion of the Johannine Comma. It was examined by J.G. Reiche.[7]

==========================================

GA 62
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuscule_62
The codex contains the text of the Acts of the Apostles, Catholic epistles, and Pauline epistles
....
The manuscript came from the East.[3] The manuscript once belonged to the Colbert's collection. It was examined by Wettstein, Griesbach,[6] and Scholz.[4] Formerly it was labelled by 62a and 65p.[3] In 1908 Gregory gave for it number 62.[1]
Currently it is housed at the Bibliothèque nationale de France (Gr. 60), at Paris.[2]
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
For historical completeness, the 2020 section on the Evangelical Textual Criticism forum (with some additional references):

evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com

The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7–8)

An academic forum to discuss the Bible's manuscripts and textual history from the perspective of historic evangelical theology.
evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com

Steven Avery 2/17/2020 8:22 am
One more search!

There is a Greek ms. of special importance, even though it does not contain the heavenly witnesses verse.

Richard Porson in 1790 translated the scholium as:

“Three in the masculine gender, in token of the Trinity: the spirit, of the Godhead; the water, of the enlightening knowlege to mankind, by the spirit; the blood, of the incarnation.”

Letters to Mr. Archdeacon Travis
books.google.com

Letters to Mr. Archdeacon Travis, in Answer to His Defence of the Three Heavenly Witnesses, I John V 7

books.google.com

==========

Steudel updating Bengel’s Gnomen has it as:

“He uses τρεῖς in the Masculine, because these things (the Spirit, the water, and the blood) are symbols of the Trinity.”

Steudel notes on Gnomen
books.google.com

Gnomon of the New Testament

books.google.com

==========

The Matthaei section is here:
books.google.com

SS[ancti] apostolorum septem epistolae catholicae

books.google.com

Also discussed by Friedrich Lucke, JFB, Tischendorf “Schol apud Matth”, Friedric Charles Cook, Meyer. Lots of solid interest and discussion up till 1900.

And Christopher Wordsworth (different translation)
books.google.com

The New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

books.google.com

This is a remarkable indication of an awareness of the Greek grammatical problem in the short text (see also torquebit grammaticos by Erasmus), often seen as a solecism. And in the scholium we see an early attempt to offer an explanation of sorts. (Gregory of Nazianzen is earlier, however that dialog with writers unknown has layers of nuance.)

Overall, John writing an epistle, and extemporaneously adjusting his grammar to allegorize spirit, water and blood is really a non-starter.

PureBibleForum

the Matthaei scholium with the grammatical gender note

the Matthaei scholium with the grammatical gender note Facebook - New Testament Textual Criticism https://www.facebook.com/groups/NTTextualCriticism/permalink/714984638588539/ scholium on the heavenly witnesses - grammatical gender interp 1 John 5:7-8 (AV) For there are three that bear...
www.purebibleforum.com

See Richard Simon here:
Pic- Facebook - NT Textual Criticism (2014)

Facebook

www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
Book
books.google.com

A Critical History of the Text of the New Testament

books.google.com

==============

*** Yet where is this Matthaei manuscript now? ***

(And those referenced by Richard Simon.)

Thanks! Any help appreciated.
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Google AI on the Matthaei text:
AI Overview

"Three in the masculine gender, in token of the Trinity"

This phrase comes from an ancient Greek marginal scholium (a note) found in a few medieval manuscripts (AI error, one) of the New Testament (dating from the 10th and 11th centuries). It was famously documented and translated by the English classical scholar Richard Porson in 1790. [1, 2]
The scholium addresses the unusual grammar in 1 John 5:7-8. In Greek, the nouns for "spirit" (πνεῦμα) and "blood" (αἷμα) are grammatically neuter, while "water" (ὕδωρ) is also neuter. However, the verse unexpectedly uses the masculine form of the adjective for "three" (τρεῖς). [1, 2, 3, 4]
According to the scholium's explanation, this grammatical anomaly was intentional: "Three in the masculine gender, in token of the Trinity". The text breaks normal grammatical rules to use a masculine term as a symbolic reference to the triune Godhead, where the Spirit represents the Godhead, the water represents enlightening knowledge to mankind, and the blood represents the incarnation. This verse and its accompanying marginal notes are closely tied to the broader historical and theological debates surrounding the Johannine Comma in Christian theology. [1, 2, 3]

Would you like to know more about the textual history of this passage, or how the grammatical gender in the original Greek manuscripts is interpreted by biblical scholars?
4 sites
  • The Greek Manuscripts of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7 ...
    Jan 7, 2020 — One more search! There is a Greek ms. of special importance, even though it does not contain the heavenly witnesses verse. Richard...
    1784376985576.png


    Evangelical Textual Criticism


  • Johannine Comma - Wikipedia
    Biblical Criticism in Early Modern England p. 114. The grammatical issue was first noticed by Gregory Naziansus in his disputes wi...
    1784376985631.png


  • The Johannine comma and Erasmus. I find this fascinating ...
    May 17, 2022 — ... on which the foundation of Christian religion is laid (1689) Richard Simon

Les Andrews
Nerdy Biblical Language Major

The Johannine comma and Erasmus. I find this fascinating.
"The text of 1 John 5:7–8 proved to be particularly problematic, and Erasmus addressed the problem at length in his annotation in editions from 1522 to 1535. The Latin Vulgate text of this passage traditionally offered parallel ‘witnesses’ to Jesus as both divine and human, the witness in heaven and the witness on earth, as in AV: ‘There are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one; and there are three that bear witness on earth, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree in one.’ Modern scholarship approves rather the reading with only one set of witnesses: ‘There are three that bear witness, the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these three agree.’ The additional words in the Vulgate (comprising what is often called the Johannine comma) seemed to many of Erasmus’ contemporaries an essential weapon to use against the Arians, for the words seemed to point definitively to the essential unity of the Trinity. Following his Greek manuscripts, Erasmus omitted the comma in the first two editions, but in 1521 a Greek manuscript found in England that included the comma (codex Montfortianus) was brought to his attention, and against his best judgment he included the words in the editions from 1522 to 1535. The manuscript now in the library of Trinity College, Dublin, has long been thought to have been forged specifically to force Erasmus to include the words in his New Testament, a point that is, however, open to question (cf Andrew Brown in ASD VI-4, introduction 27–111)." Erasmus and the NT

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