Have you been praying to Jupiter? - Nehemia Gordon gets right to the heart of the Yahweh matter

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
extracts from "Praying to Jupiter" by Nehemia Gordon

Here are some more of the details shared by Nehemia.

Nehemia Gordon shows that jove == yahweh (and jove-pater, father jove, father yahweh, is jupiter.) And there is a solid body of supporting writings from others. And I have found nobody who denies that the Latin jove sounds identical to, or extremely close to, yahweh. Also we have seen that the pagan jupiter could not be derivative from the God of Israel.

The tape on the site of Jonathan Lankford:

The Father’s name: Yahweh?
“Praying to Jupiter” by Nehemia Gordon:

No longer available - a modest donation to Nehemia (worthwhile considering the value of his Yehovah and Masoretic Text material) and occasionally able to be found online.
Jonathan Lankford has some good review material, as does Chris W. Clark on Facebook
https://jonathansdocs.com/2016/01/18/the-name-of-yehovah/
Samaritan issues are around 35:00 on explaining how they used Jupiter. Definitely listen carefully from 39:30 to 45

Added: after 31:00 the Josephus quote about the Samaritans and the Temple of Jupiter-Hellenius

[00:46:45]
"Gesenius... This is absolutely huge. It's not me speculating that Yahweh is Jupiter. It's the scholar who came up with it, who defended it, who argues this, whose really the most prominent defender of Yahweh, who tells us that it comes from Jupiter ... I'm getting emotional because what this means is that there are millions, thousands of people at least, who are, they're praying to Jupiter. When they say Yahweh, that is ... Jupiter ... Father Yahweh is Jupiter."

[00:49:15]
"He has a name. And his name is Yehovah."

[01:05:02 - Nehemiah closing prayer] Yehovah, I ask for you to have mercy. There is a verse, Yehovah, in your scriptures, in Psalms, it talks about us going into exile and calling upon the name of a foreign God because we don't any better. And Yehovah, I ask for you to have mercy on those who are calling upon the name of the Latin deity Jupiter, not realizing that Yahweh is the name of this pagan God. They don't mean it. I know you can see into their hearts and you can see into their minds and you know that when they call upon this that they really mean you.... turn their hearts to your true name, the name that even the pagan Greeks knew had power....
Click to expand...

Clear enough

Psalm 81:9
There shall no strange god be in thee;
neither shalt thou worship any strange god.

Related are the verses about the rivers of Babylon. Nehemia may have been conflating in the prayer.

You can see the Gesenius page given by Nehemia at:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/230105862191295670/

==========

The emotion that Nehemia shared was very deep.

Psalm 42:7
Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts:
all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me.

And I have a similar emotion when I think of my dear friends of so many years who are still crying out to the devil yahweh. Wrongly thinking they are calling to the Holy One of Israel. This impels me to share with them, and others who could be led astray.

And there is some related material from [01:00:00] to [01:01:15]. I suggest listening to the whole talk.

==========

Steven
 
Last edited:
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Nehemia Gordon and the Masoretic Text mss.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT THE JUPITER MATERIAL AND WILL BE PLANNED FOR ITS OWN THREAD!

===================================================================

This is brought over from Facebook, and can get some tweaking. And the reading is easier here.

Nehemiah Gordon and Yehovah / Jehovah as the real name
And yahweh as the pagan devil jupiter
https://www.facebook.com/groups/purebible/permalink/1223933187698568/

We will use Yehovah and Jehovah interchangably.

Nehemia has a traditional Jewish (yeshiva bucher) background and then switched to a Karaite position, that is rather negative about the Pharasitical Talmudic structures.

The material from Nehemia is exceedingly important. He really, really knows Hebrew Bible manuscripts, with native Hebrew fluency combined with yeshiva bucher background along with techie Hebraic scholarship (after all, he even co-authored with Emanuel Tov on one of the DJD .. Discoveries in the Judean Desert .. books.)

This makes his "appeal to authority" (it is also an "appeal to sense" since what Nehemia shares on this topic is clear and understandable and solid) on the Jehovah issues dynamite. He is 10 rungs and more above the deficient sacred namers, 8 rungs above the Bible seminarians who have piddle Hebrew and about 5 rungs even most of the internet Hebrew experts/shmexperts like Jeff Benner. Nehemia is also way above, in fluency and proficiency and competence, most all of the posters on the b-hebrew forum, which was all over the map. And, I believe, a good bit above the reasonably competent writers like Randall Buth (whose efforts are often fine, he lives in Israel and often makes good sense.)

Plus, Nehemia has researched many aspects of this question extensively. Including looking carefully at Masoretic Text mss, those from the Rabbinical school and those from the Karaites, both of which supports Jehovah.

This thread plans to go in and out of two elements.

1) Nehemia and Yehovah as the Tetragram; and the deadly embrace by scholarship of the pagan devil yahweh.

2) How some of the research historically fits in. Nehemia did superb work looking at Gesenius. There is lots of interesting stuff where scholars tried to connect Jehovah and/or Yahweh with paganism as well, as well as counterpoint.

Interestingly, until about 1997, hardly anybody noted the simple vocalization truth.

yahweh = jove
jove-pater is jupiter
ergo
calling on yahweh is calling upon the pagan devil jupiter
jupiter is father yahweh

That means that a prayer to yahweh is a prayer to a devil.

Nehemia makes this exceedingly clear, here are two quotes:

"Have you been praying to Jupiter?"

"The greatest trick Jupiter ever pulled was convincing the world he isn't worshiped."

And Nehemia covers some of the many historical connections where Jupiter is the enemy of historical Hebrew and Christian faith.

Nehemia's material is partly scattered in books and youtubes and an audio. I hope to help us get familiar with the material.

The next post will go over a video from a couple of months back, where Nehemia was interviewed by Michael Rood.

Michael Rood, while a bit problematic, (understatement alert!) has been a friend of Nehemia Gordon for many years. In 2001 Nehemia explained many of the Yehovah basics in Rood's home in Talpiot, Jerusalem, despite the fact that Rood was a yahwehista. (I was there, it was one session, in many ways the best, in a week-long series.)

Ten to fifteen years later, Rood woke up, smelled the herb tea, and dumped the clump yahweh. Strangely, even in the video, Rood sounds like he saying Yahoveh or Yahovah, which Yah first syllable would be a decrepit mangling. Tell me what you think.

=====

This is the first tape I will give some extracts and comments. (Although there is referencing to the audio "Are you Praying to Jupiter" on this PureBibleForum site.)

Revealed! The Name of God (with Michael Rood & Nehemia Gordon) - Shabbat Night Live - 10/21/16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OINxigbPEBY#t=29m55s

For some reason I began about minute 40, although Nehemiah begins at 33:25.

And I think most of the Nehemia presentation can be found in this tape and the "Are You Praying to Jupiter" tape. Although I plan to check other material (the book by Keith Johnson, the discussion with Christine Darg, etc.) to make sure we have the complete study. Also there is a tape with Rood from one week earlier which goes over the Aleppo Codex

Keep in mind that within the 55 minutes, there are about 20 minutes of really important stuff. Some is entertaining, without being relevant. Some stuff on other topics is questionable.

Also keep in mind that since Nehemia does not know the Lord Jesus Christ, he can over-emphasize the true Tetragram Jehovah name.

Your thoughts welcome, especially about the 20 minutes of good stuff. If you are very busy, I'll point you to the minute marks, times approximate.

45:30 Tiberias Masoretes
46:30 Severus ms, Temple Scroll, from Rome to Israel
48:00 Kariate and Rabbinic Masoretic ms distinction
50:50 Aleppo - Leningrad -
Cairo Codex of the Prophets
Damascus Crown 10th century
53:00 looking at a Masoretic ms Hebrew Union College ms#1
Cairo Genizah
1:07 A lot of good stuff
1:18 Revelation verse material around
1:23 coins around

==================

And I want to make a little aside that Nehemia is by no means alone in the overall basics of what he shares. Two men, Carl Franklin and Gerard Gertoux, had covered many issues in large studies. Scott Jones and Thomas Ross helped on the TR and AV front, although smaller writings.

And a couple of men are mentioned on the PureBibleForum as seeing the yahweh-devil element going back 20 years. Explaining the Latin exactly as done by Nehemia.

However, his enthusiasm, ability to share to the common man, and Hebraic street-cred make Nehemia perhaps the most important person today on this topic. Even though technically there are many places where e.g. Franklin and Gertoux cover historical details where Nehemia is not trying to be exhaustive. Thus, they can be better sources. Similarly the Scott Jones pic of "Jeho--" theophoric names.

=====

One funny point in the tape above is when Nehemia explains how people ask him how he came up with Jehovah.

And he says, wait, I did not come up with anything. That is how the Masoretic mss, Rabbinical and Karaite, actually read (allowing some complexities in the abbreviated forms). Nothing new here.

This is a a key point. The defenders of Jehovah are on the solid ground. The pagan pushers have to claim the mss are wrong and do their own guesswork. Often that guesswork is circular to the idea that the Hebrews did NOT have a revelation, but took from the pagans.

Note also the part where he describes how the Tiberian Masoretes made sure they knew the language.. ..... AND .. used copies of the Temple Scroll that had been returned to Israel by the Roman empoerer Serverian. I have not checked the sources on this, but he knows the Hebraic sources very well. This can be a key element in the explaining the perfection of the Received Text unto the AV.
 
Last edited:
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
more of the modern resources - mostly focused on Nehemia Gordon's studies

Yahweh vs. YHVH: The Name of God - Q&A with Michael Rood & Nehemia Gordon
Sept 2, 2016
https://youtu.be/SsLhk39qEqw


=============================
WIP

What is God's REAL name? (with Michael Rood & Nehemia) -
10/14/2016
https://youtu.be/oxSFKFOG3wE


Nehemia begins about 35

39 Hebrew University background
46 - replaced with vowels of adonai
his job was to go over all the dots - Aleppo Codex
49:30 Aleppo Kariate - Leningrad Rabbinical
50:45 - 10th c ..theory of vowels due to karaite in Persia - Chorasan - using names - they pulled out a vowel
52 - missing vowel .. o .. wasnt missing
names being Yeho
911
===
1:02 - NT Blessed is he that comes

1:18 - Talmud quotes Jesus on jot and tittle

==================

Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence - Nehemia Gordon (I may have this)
Book

Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence - Talk with Christine Darg
https://mychristianresearch.wordpre...he-conspiracy-of-silence-with-christine-darg/

Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence - Talk with Christine Darg
https://youtu.be/4TN1B1V2-_g

Also see transcription notes by Szygyify
"The Masoretic scribes knew the name to be YeHoVaH and suppressed its pronunciation by omitting the "O". This is confirmed by the fact that the scribes actually forgot to suppress the vowel "O" in a number of instances. The way scribes copied ancient writings was to read the words either out loud or under their breath. The scribe sometimes made a mistake and wrote what he heard from his own lips, even if this differed from what he read with his eyes. This is a common mistake in modern English as well. When English speakers are writing quickly or typing they often write down "know" instead of "no" or "their" instead of "there". This is not due to ignorance since most people who make this mistake know full well the difference between these homonyms. Instead this is an error stemming from how the words sound. In the case of the divine name the scribe knew that the word YHVH sounded like YeHoVaH and even though he was supposed to suppress the vowel "O" he left it in, in a few dozen instances. In the LenB19a Masoretic manuscript (Leningrad Codex), the earliest complete Masoretic manuscript and the basis of renowned BHS edition, the name is written YeHoVaH 50 times out of a total of 6828. It is significant that no other vowel besides "O" was "accidentally" inserted into the divine name." Nehemiah Gordon

https://youtu.be/[URL='https://www.youtube.com/user/Szygyify']Szygyify[/URL]
https://www.youtube.com/user/Szygyify

Also at
(with junk at side)




==================


His Hallowed Name Revealed Again - (2010)
Keith Johnson
https://www.amazon.com/His-Hallowed-Name-Revealed-Again/dp/0615333230

His Hallowed Name Revealed Again
Keith Johnson
placed by Jonathan Lankford
Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/HisHallowedName/

(check my notes Linkman and search for other Keith Johnson material)

Open Door Series 1 -- Discovering Common Ground -- Keith Johnson
Nehemia Gordon
May 20, 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJYs2iUv8Hs&list=PLWaplikTHGIh5XcqGYmIfqzdOYjNYeWtC
Open Door Series 3 -- The Name of God -- Nehemia Gordon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah3k1dhR-ag

====================

THE DIVINE NAME (יְהֹוָה) REVEALED
Joseph Israel
Jan 26, 2017
http://israelofpromise.org/audio/the-divine-name-יְהֹוָה-revealed/

3 one hour tapes, he begins with yahweh ends up better

Also has a short intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqwfJTgVnMA

======================

Friend of Keith Johnson

Why I use the name "Yehovah"
Mihaal86
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWSDkMcsfh8&feature=youtu.be
 
Last edited:
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
From "Have You Been Praying to Jupiter?"

Reland quoted at 3:30 .. was it Reland or one of the writers?

This can also be compared to the other talks .. like Michael Rood

After 7:00 comes Gesenius and the pagan Greek magical evidence with five pronunciations
(after 12:00). Gesenius relies on Samaritans.
14:00 - Reland talked of Samaritans (quoted by Gesenius),
14:55 - Theodoret of Cyrus, Questions on Exodus. Jews use Yah.
16:00 - Samaritans MAY not have pronounced the name (note Justin lies about this)
17:00 - Samaritan history from Ezra and OT
20:00 - Samaritans will use Shema, the name
22:00 - back to smoking gun - 168 BC dedicated to Jupiter - Josephus has letter Antioches Antiquities 12:5:(sec 258)
Gerazim - without a name - we're not Jews - Sidonians -
25:30 - the Temple of Jupiter Hellenias
26:50 - Samaritan - God with no name - they do not pronounce - so they did it to Jupiter Hellenias
27:30 - Mishnah - Boaz and angel who greets Gideon - banned by 200 AD (Samaritans forbade)
29:30 - Graetz argues that the requirement was to distinguish Israelite from Samaritan (
30:15 - some Samaritans at least would not speak YHVH
30:50 - coin shows Temple to Jupiter - dug up by archaeologists on Mt. Gerazim 1.000 steps up "Psalm of Ascent/Steps"
31:45 - Nablus Shechem sun worship disk
32:00 - back to Theodoret - 5th century, referred to their God IABE
32:40 - Samaritans did speak, what is Jupiter?
33:00 3 Latin Professors - Tufts Duke U of Tex Austin - yoweh-(pater for father)
33:50 - by Jove, Latin word yoweh or yahweh are both pronunciations -
35:00 - people come up with all sorts of wacky things, gives Amen situation
35:30 - that , in and of itself, proves absolutely nothing
35:50 - Samaritan and Gesenius "now you got my attention"
36:15 - Gesenius .. sounds like Jupiter and Gesenius uses Egyptian magical sources -
37:00 - Gesenius - Yhwh sounds like the Latin form of Jupiter - common origin - YHWH is Jupiter
37:45 - difusionism - ancient Egyptian God went to Hebrews
38:20 - slight difference yoweh and yahweh - they had to adapt to Hebrew words - gives Moses example Ramses whose name has Egyptian origen
39:00 - Gesenius summarized - it was the scholar .. and he ties it to Samaritans
39:50 - among my most important discoveries
40:10 - thousands, millions praying to Jupiter
40:30 - maybe the rabbis were right to ban the name
41:33 - Gesenius - and so inflected by the Hebrews that it might appear in both form and origin to be the Phoenio-Semitic
41:50 - utter blasphemy and heresy to say that the Israelites are worshipping a pagan Egyptian God
42:05 - YHVH in Hebrew - lexicon etymology of YHVH - HALOT and BDV - 5 explanations destroyer, calls into existence, acts passionately, speaks, ecstatically - Hebrew details explained - 7 conjugations
44:55 - hiphil fifth conjugation - causative - Gesenius like that but Exodus 3:14 tells us - "I will be..." in the kal conjugation
47:00 - he will .. to be - 47:40 - Jewish sources . .combo of 3 Hebrew verbs
49:00 - Gesenius source influence by Jupiter.. tweaked to fit into the Hebrew .. adapted per G.
50:00 - he who is
50:30 - Gesenius - Josephus - all these different Gods, ... close enough
51:15 - a lot of people will be very upset - hovah destruction stuff
52:00 - maybe Gesenius later distanced himself (actually that was said by Tregelles who considered the Gesenius argument an abomination)
52:30 - benediction





 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top