Hermae Pastor - 1856 - Tichendorf on the Athous ms. of Simonides - linguistics that are also in Sinaiticus

Steven Avery

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Hermae Pastor - 1856 - Tichendorf on the Athous ms. of Simonides - linguistics that are also in Sinaiticus

Tischendorf begins
https://books.google.com/books?id=9I4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PR3

p. 7
https://books.google.com/books?id=9I4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PR7

Some of these might just be Anger Dindorf
https://books.google.com/books?id=osAHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR15
https://books.google.com/books?id=y4f9ENLqmX0C&pg=PR5
https://books.google.com/books?id=T9ACAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR5
https://books.google.com/books?id=QEVMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR5

Check that this connects to Anger-Dindorf edition.

Hermae Pastor Graece Primum Ediderunt
https://books.google.com/books?id=QEVMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PP5
https://archive.org/stream/hermaepastorgre00hermgoog#page/n6

Visions III,1
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p. 8 Mandates x.1 (not in Sinaiticus)


p. 9
Visions II:4
Similitudes 8:10 (no Sin)
Mandates 6:2 (no Sin)
Mandates 4 (maybe)
Visions II:1
Visions IV:2


p. 10
Visions II (Origen))

p. 11
(footnote)
Mandates XII, 4 (not Sin)
Mandate V (not Sin)

p. 12
Visions IV, Ch 1
 
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Steven Avery

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p. 15

Visions IV,3
recuperato vero Simonidis apographo etiam illud perisse Graeci textus omamentum Vis. IV. cap. 3. inventum: (Greek) quod Latini (Greek) et (Greek) vocabula confundentcs reddunt „quo locou" vel "quem in locum". Periit, inquam: ex codice enim suo in Atho monte Simonides fideli manu hausit (Greek). Quod vix dubito quin Graecus codex cum tot aliis e Latino assumserit: nisi quod origo Latini liuius vitii in velustioribus Graecis quaerenda est.


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But when the apograph of Simonides was recovered, that Greek text also perished. IV. chap. 3. The discovery: (Greek) that the Latins (Greek) and (Greek) confuse the terms, rendering "quo locou" or "in which place". I scarcely doubt that the Greek codex, with so many others, took it from the Latin; except that the origin of the Latin vice is to be sought in the more vigorous Greeks.

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Visions III,3
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Denique vero si quid momenti arguments nostris deesse vide- bitur, id omne compensant loci duo, quibus quae in Graecum textum vitia transiere, non possunt non ex Latinis derivari. Alter, cuius iam supra mentio iniccta est, habetur Vis. III, 3. (Greek), quod, quum de turri eiusque rationibus sermo sit, ineptissimum est. Fluxit vero inde quod plures Latini codices, in quibus etiam Vaticanus est Dresselii, non item Palatinus, praebent „versutum te esse circa scripluras", confusis quippe verbis „circa scripturas* — de singulis aedificandae turris rationibus agitur, quam in rem (Greek) vel simile quid ab auctore scribi poterat — et „circa scripluras.** Quae confusio ut in Latinis facillime poterat fieri, ila in Graccis fieri prorsus nequibat, nisi si quis Latina Graece vertereL

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Finally, if our argument seems to be lacking in anything important, it will be compensated by two passages, in which the defects which have passed into the Greek text cannot but be derived from the Latin. The other, which has already been mentioned above, is called Visions 3, 3. (Greek), which, when the talk is about the tower and its accounts, is most absurd. It flowed from this fact that several Latin codices, in which the Vatican is also the Dresselius, and not the Palatine, provide that "you are versed in the writings", because the words "about the scriptures" are confused - it is about the individual reasons for building the tower, rather than in fact (Greek) or something like this could be written by the author - and "you would scribble around." This confusion, which could very easily occur in the Latins, was absolutely impossible to occur in the Greeks, unless someone translated the Latin into Greek.

With Greek from Kirk - add picture
Finally, if our argument seems to be lacking in anything important, it will be compensated by two passages, in which the defects which have passed into the Greek text cannot but be derived from the Latin. The other, which hasbeenmentionedaboveiscalledVisions3,3.panou'rgo" ei[ periV taV" grafav" [panourgos ei peri tas graphas]mentioned above. The talk is about the tower and flowed from this fact that several Latin codices, in which the Vatican is also the Dresselius, and not the Palatine, provide that “you are versed in the writing”, because the words “above the Scriptures” are confused - it is about the individual reasons for building the tower, rather than in fact oijkodomaiv [oikodomai] or something like this could be written by the author - and “you would scribble around.” This confusion which could very easily occur in the Latins was absolutely impossible to occur in the Greeks, unles someone translated the latin into Greek.


English - Charles Taylor 1903 -
this does not match, we may want 3,4
https://archive.org/details/shepherdhermas01taylgoog/page/n68/mode/1up
https://books.google.com/books?id=-Rg0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA62


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Visions II,3 - Maximo

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Steven Avery

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p. 14
Visions, 3,10
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Item Vis. Ill, 10. excipiunt se tria haec: (Greek) Similia inveniuntur saepissime. Quo cum usu res alterae duac cohaerent: usus frequentissimus verbi (Greek) ad euni prorsus modum (|iio Latini ponunt „inquit“ 11) et verbonun singulorum collocatio Latina magis quam Graeca.

11


Likewise, Visions III, 10. these three things meet: (Greek) Similar things are found very often. With this use, two other things are connected: the most frequent use of the word (Greek) in exactly the same way (the Latins put "inquit" 11) and the placement of individual verbs in Latin rather than Greek.

https://www.ccel.org/l/lake/fathers/shepherd_b.htm

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Steven Avery

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Beginning of Tischendorf book

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Constat inter viros doctos, duo inprimis codices a Simonide Symensi Lipsiae nuper prolatos esse qui multorum admirationem excitarent, alterum Uranii palimpsestum, alterum Pastoris Hermae qui dicitur. Atque illum quidem, non mediocri artificio ita comparatum ut viros scripturae Graecae in membranis antiquissimis adbibitae totiusque rei palaeographicae paulio imperitiores aliquandin falleret, ut primum nobis videre contigit, pro formis litterarum male inter se mixtis ac membranae ratione a libris palimpsestis iisque antiquissimis mirum in modum diversa sine ulla dubitatione falsum esse docuimus. Quae res a nobis, qui omnium soli codices Graecos antiquissimos in iisque palimpsestos qui supersunt longe plcrosque ubique terrarum perquisivimus et cum studio tractavimus, aliter ne potuit quidem fieri, neque opinor magnam laudem habet. In Herma vero magnus ille artifex Symensis alio fraudis modo functus est.

It is agreed among learned men that two first of all manuscripts were lately brought forth by Simonides of Symmenis of Lipsia, which aroused the admiration of many, the first palimpsest of Uranus, and the second called the Shepherd of Hermes. And he, indeed, by no mean artifice, so prepared as to deceive the men of Greek writing on the most ancient membranes, and a little more ignorant of the whole matter of palaeography, as it happened to us for the first time to see, for the forms of letters were badly mixed with each other, and in relation to the membranes were strangely different from the palimpsest books and those very ancient ones. We have learned beyond any doubt that it is false. This thing could not have been done otherwise by us, who alone of all the ancient Greek manuscripts in those palimpsests which have survived far and wide throughout the world, and treated them with diligence, could not have been done otherwise, and I do not think it deserves great praise. In Hermas, however, that great artist of Symensis employed another method of fraud.

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