Steven Avery
Administrator
This is from CARM, with lots of good Mark 9:20 grammar referencing.
https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/t...derstand-biblical-koine?p=5823881#post5823881
And I plan to add the comments from Barry Hofstetter, who makes the same type of error here as he does on the heavenly witnesses verses.
Also the material from the Textkit forum can get a direct link or two.
https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/t...derstand-biblical-koine?p=5823881#post5823881
And I plan to add the comments from Barry Hofstetter, who makes the same type of error here as he does on the heavenly witnesses verses.
Also the material from the Textkit forum can get a direct link or two.
"Grammar parsing" is used a lot, "parse the grammar" a fair amount. John may have picked it up from my usage, in discussing his John 1:10 error.Jameson;n5818305 said:I've never heard anyone use the expression "parse the grammar,".
Agreed. Very strange.Jameson;n5818305 said:nor do I think that a circumstantial participle is "modifying" a word.
Earlier I showed that a number of solid grammarians agree on this point. Barry does not seem to be familiar with those writers, and also has a low view of the 1800s grammarians.Jameson;n5818305 said:I read ἰδών as referring to the boy .
Steven Avery;n5810922 said:Here it looks like Alexander Buttmann is countering the idea of any constructio ad sensum, simply based on proper grammar parsing.
A Grammar of the New Testament Greek (1891)
By Alexander Buttmann
https://books.google.com/books?id=oA9CAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA130
CONSTBUCTIO AD SYNESIN IN THE PREDICATE.
... b) The predicate follows the natural gender of the subject. Of this the examples are most numerous in the Apocalypse, in accordance with the style of the author (see § 123, 7 p. 80). ... fj-ivuL. (But ... in Mark ix. 20 ἰδὼν does not refer to τὸ πνεῦμα see § 144, 18 c) p. 299.)
Steven Avery;n5813801 said:And I showed you that Buttmann specifically contests your claim here, saying that the spirit is not the one that saw Jesus.
Mark 9:17 (AV)
And one of the multitude answered and said, Master,
I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
Mark 9:20 (AV)
And they brought him unto him:
and when he saw him,
straightway the spirit tare him;
and he fell on the ground,
....
Alexander Buttmann says it was the boy (who received deliverance by the Lord Jesus) who saw Jesus, not the spirit, which makes perfect sense.Here is Moses Stuart:Steven Avery;n5814000 said:We were benefited by the Textkit discussion that was initiated by S. Walch. They mentioned Winer and Blass ,
(the reference is from Swete, who supported the CAS idea, and "not an ancoluthon".)as Winer (WM., p. 710) and Blass (Gr. p. 283) ...
as contra the contructio ad sensum idea of the pneuma being used with masculine grammar.. To that we can add Alexander Buttmann, p.130 and p.384, and Moses Stuart.
A Grammar of the New Testament Dialect (1834)
By Moses Stuart
https://books.google.com/books?id=9x2fEDwCViUC&pg=PA249
(1) By anacoluthon ... is meant, a sentence which,, being interrupted by some inserted circumstance, is resumed not with a regularly continued construction, but with one differing from that with which it was begun. .... E.g. Mark 9:20...