Matthew 19:9 - Erasmus - Joseph Webb, Leslie McFall critique - MADR - marriage and divorce - exception clause

Steven Avery

Administrator
Those against Erasmus on the verse

Leslie McFall
https://wisereaction.org/wp-content...blical-teaching-on-divorce-and-remarriage.pdf

Timothy Sparks on Leslie McFall
https://timothysparks.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/mcfall-mt-199-appendix-b.pdf
April 15, 2015 · 1:48 pm
Explaining the Translation of Mt. 19:9 by Dr. Leslie McFall
https://timothysparks.com/2015/04/15/explaining-the-translation-of-mt-199-by-dr-leslie-mcfall/

Dr. McFall granted permission to make the following 11 pages available from his e-book:
APPENDIX B, abstracted from his e‑book (11 august, 2014): AN EXPLANATION FOR THE AUTHOR’S LITERAL TRANSLATION OF MATTHEW 19:9
https://timothysparks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/mcfall-mt-199-appendix-b.pdf

The Biblical Teaching on Divorce and Remarriage - Erasmus and Divorce in Matthew 19:9 -
Leslie McFall
http://www.academia.edu/10729554/Erasmus_and_Divorce_in_Matthew_19_9
(Erasmus not mentioned)


Matthew 19:9 - McFall, the "exception clause", and Erasmus
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....w-199-mcfall-the-exception-clause-and-erasmus.

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David Pawson

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Joseph A. Webb (and Patricia) - monstrous

Divorce and Remarriage: The Trojan Horse Within the Church: Whom Shall We Then Believe? (2008)
https://books.google.com/books?id=vil5osdmt4sC&pg=PA42

P. 41-42
With this paradigm he proceeded to re-interpret Matthew 5 & 19 and 1 Corinthians 7 in an unprecedented way, forsaking all the early Church had ever taught. He ignored and twisted what Jesus, Paul the Apostle and the early Church Fathers taught, to promote his humanistic convictions. He called their statements and teachings, “monstrous.” Monstrous? Would you or I ever make such a charge? Do we dare be in agreement with someone who “Reasoned” that way? It might benefit us here to pause and analyze the full meaning of this accusation Erasmus made against the teachings of our Lord Jesus, Paul the Apostle, and every one of the earliest church fathers. The Webster’s Dictionary describes this word to mean: “shocking in its wrongness and absurdity.”

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Steven Avery

Administrator
Facebook - NT Textual Criticism (2024)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NTTextualCriticism/posts/8484433311643594/

Buck Daniel ·


I've got several irons in the fire and I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, but the nature of facebook groups is that several discussions can go on at once, so here goes.

I have the unenviable skill of easily finding mistakes in what others have published, and I have put that to use in perusing Michael Holmes' "The Text of the Matthean Divorce Passages: A Comment on the Appeal to Harmonization in Textual Decisions" published nearly a quarter century ago in JBS, now available on JSTOR.

Why am I offering corrections to something so old that it practically predates the Internet? Precisely because it is now freely available, and being referenced in groups like this. And also because Michael Holmes used his own textual theory in composing the SBL GNT--now the textual base of the popular online GNT at LaParola. Thus SBL became the first among the critical editions to follow B 03 in including καὶ ὁ ἀπολελυμένην γαμήσας μοιχᾶται at the end of Matthew 19:9 (since followed by THGNT).

(I could stop here and say that apparently the only reason why they would omit the ending of the verse in a critical GNT when it is the reading of Vaticanus, is that Vaticanus agrees there with the majority of mss against another Alexandrian ms, but I won't.)

Mike Holmes makes the point that a textual critic should examine the entire passage when comparing readings, rather that minutely dividing the text up into supposedly independent readings, which upon further inspection don't turn out to be independent after all. He gives as an example of this "atomistic" tendency Baltensweiler's treatment of Mark 10:12 , where he separates the variation between αυτη and γυνη from the rest of the verse, decides that αυτη is original, and then prefixes it to three different forms of the rest of the verse, thereby creating two "phantom" forms of the verse that do not exist in any known manuscript. He does not appear to realize--or at least give the reader any clue--that αυτη virtually never occurs in a manuscript that does not also read απολυσασα. What Mike Holmes referred to as "atomistic" approach results in what is currently called a "test-tube text," a term I think was coined by Maurice Robinson. I am in wholehearted agreement with both of these scholars that this is a problem, and furthermore believe that a lot still needs to be done to fix it.

So, where is the mistake? Well, in tracking it down I found things to get even more confusing, but let's start with the claim that 0233 reads the same as 03 for Matthew 19:9 (disregarding 03's omission of οτι at the beginning of the logion). Regarding the variant

παρεκτος λογου πορνειας ασποιει αυτην μοιχευθηναι
(except for a case of fornication, he causes her to commit adultery

--which is also the reading of ƒ¹), this is indeed the case. But for the following clause, no doubt following the Münster apparatus, he shows B and 0233 reading, with the majority,

και ο απολελυμενην γαμησας μοιχαται
(and he having married her who is put away commits adultery).

But (apparently) that's not how 0233 reads at the end of the verse.

So, I've identified an error (granted, an extremely minor error) in Mike Holmes' article, but it's really just an error in the apparatus he was using--in 1990 there was no practical way for him to check the manuscript himself. Now, with the Virtual Manuscript Room, any scholar can log on and do that--so I did, and found the transcription of 0233 to read as follows:

λεγω δε υμιν· οτι ος αν απολυσει την γυναικα αυτου (παρεκτος λογου πορνειας) ποιει αυτην μοιχευθηναι, και απολελυμενην γαμον μοιχαται
(that last clause meaning "and wedding her who is put away commits adultery"). There's a noun in place of the participle.

But here's where the problem compounds. First of all, even though 0233 is cataloged as an uncial, the page view that comes up in the VMR isn't of an uncial--and furthermore, the content of the page that comes up doesn't match the content of the transcription. Either an entirely different set of images is indexed to 0233, or at the very least the transcription doesn't index to the corresponding page of the manuscript. So even here at the verge of the second quarter of the following century, I'm no more able than Mike Holmes was in 1990, to actually check the reading of the manuscript itself.

Katie Leggett and Greg Paulson, care to check this out?




Steven Avery
In the marriage permanence movement (often TR or AV)

Matthew 19:9 (AV)
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Is a key verse, where some consider the “exception clause” to relate to the Hebrew betrothal period. As Joseph was confronted with Mary accused. I concur.

JSTOR -
"The Text of the Matthean Divorce Passages: A Comment on the Appeal to Harmonization in Textual Decisions"
Michael V. Holmes
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3267368?read-now=1&seq=14#page_scan_tab_contents

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Steven Avery

Administrator
Facebook - Sharon FitzHenry
https://www.facebook.com/1000028099...uJ1vnHEyyDQ4QQ4zAGqj2JQpWLr6chYgt6cUYSzne7l/?

Dr. Leslie McFall, a scholar par excellence, Research Fellow at Tyndale House, Cambridge, UK
587 page research paper on Divorce and Remarriage.
https://lmf12.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/divorce_aug_2014.pdf

Below is just one of many subsections.
Matthew's EXCEPTION CLAUSE
THE FIRST CHOICE (ERASMUS’S CHOICE)
If Jesus was making one exception to His teaching on divorce, and if He had used eij before mh; then the translation would be: “Now I say to you that who, for instance, may have divorced his wife—except he may have divorced for fornication—and may have married another woman, he becomes adulterous by marrying her. And the man having married a divorced wife, he becomes adulterous by marrying her.”
THE SECOND CHOICE (McFALL’S CHOICE)
If Jesus was making no exception to His teaching on divorce, and if He had not used eij before mh; then the translation would be: “Now I say to you that who, for instance, may have divorced his wife—not over fornication which bore the death penalty—and may have married another woman, he becomes adulterous by marrying her. And the man having married a divorced wife, he becomes adulterous by marrying her.”
The overwhelming textual evidence supports the second choice, which means that from the time the Reformation Churches broke away from the Roman Catholic church in the sixteenth
century, the Protestant denominations have been teaching the opposite to what the Head of the Church taught His apostles. Matthew, Mark, and Luke had been saying the same thing all along.
There never had been an exception to Jesus’ teaching of ‘No divorce for any cause,’ not even for fornication or adultery.
with Jennifer McWhorter Mulkey, Cheryl Daniel Kip Williams L. Carlton Walker-Cross

===================

Sharon FitzHenry
Dr. McFall proved that Erasmas inserted an exception for divorce, not originally there.
The result is that today we are living out the legacy of their error, and most Christians are content to retain Erasmus’s new doctrine because so many relatives and friends have fallen for it, and they are not prepared to give up being a disciple of Erasmus, to follow Christ Jesus, who will not tolerate any remarriages after a divorce.
Jesus did not come to re educate the fallen mind of man, nor did He come to bring out the best in human nature, nor did He come with a new philosophy. He came to destroy fallen, human nature, to destroy fallen, human knowledge, to destroy fallen, human ethics, and everything else that belongs to fallen human beings, because nothing ‘human’ will enter the Kingdom of God. Unless a person dies to self and crucifies all that is human in their fallen, human nature they cannot move forward to receive the Spirit of Christ, and without the Spirit of Christ, no such person will enter the Kingdom of God. The word ‘death’ must be written over fallen, human nature, and this truth be lived out as a reality, if we are to receive a new nature, a new heart, a new spirit, a new mind, and for all things to become new. Those who counsel divorce to Christians are still living within their old nature, and operating out of that old nature, while professing to have the new nature of Christ. They have not known a born again experience, nor known the transforming change that Christ brings. They are still strangers to these spiritual experiences, yet profess to be mature Christian marriage counsellors. These counsellors are cute enough to know how to avoid being caught out and will indulge in smooth talk, seeming to teach Christ’s doctrine of full forgiveness for all sins, but really pandering to human common sense, if the wrongdoer does not want forgiveness. Both Jesus and Stephen unilaterally forgave their murderers.
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Jesus on Anger: The Text of Matthew 5:22a Revisited (1988)
David Alan Black
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1560838
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1560838?read-now=1&seq=3#page_scan_tab_contents
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Corrado Marucci (1940-2016)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrado_Marucci

Parole di Gesù sul divorcio (1982)
Jesus' Words on Divorce
Corrado Marucci

Worldcat
Parole di Gesù sul divorzio : ricerche scritturistiche previe ad un ripensamento teologico, canonistico e pastorale della dottrina cattolica dell'indissolubilità del matrimonio (1982)
https://search.worldcat.org/title/850991450?oclcNum=850991450

Google Books - NOVIEW
https://books.google.com/books/about/Parole_di_Gesù_sul_divorzio.html?id=T74QMQAACAAJ

REVIEW - Gerald Bonner - English
https://academic.oup.com/jts/article-abstract/35/2/509/1734765?redirectedFrom=fulltext

1750246628500.png


REVIEW - J. C. Ingleaere - French
https://www.persee.fr/doc/rhpr_0035-2403_1984_num_64_2_4765_t1_0185_0000_2

REVIEW - Dupont Jacques - French
https://www.persee.fr/doc/thlou_0080-2654_1983_num_14_1_1956_t1_0099_0000_1
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Will Kinney

Matthew 19:9 - Did Erasmus introduce an error in the Textus Receptus?

A Christian brother writes:

Hello Will, This was the response I received about Matthew 19:9

“Just to summarize the argument regarding Matthew 19:9 with a bit more information, in case you want to follow up with your friend who is King James Only, the TR reads ei mē epi porneiai, which is not found in any Greek text in existence prior to that time, including the Greek texts which Erasmus himself consulted.

The TR reading is found as a marginal note on one of the Greek texts which Erasmus consulted, a 15th century manuscript called Codex Leicestrensis (Manuscript 69); however, there is good evidence to suggest, which I did not realize when I spoke to you yesterday, that this correction was added after Erasmus saw the text (because the same corrector elsewhere uses verse numbering, which was first introduced in Robert Stephens’ royal edition of 1550, whereas Erasmus died in 1536). So it seems clear that the word ei was added by Erasmus out of the blue, without any textual support at all of any kind. He invented this reading out of nowhere.

So why did he do this? What was his motivation for corrupting the text? The argument for a theological motivation is as follows:

(a) Erasmus was introducing a new perspective on divorce and remarriage, which is still known today as the “Erasmian view”. This was in opposition to the traditional view of the Roman Catholic church, which was also pretty much uniformly the view of the church fathers.

(b) Matthew 19:9 is the crucial text in the debate. There is no other text in the entire New Testament which is potentially decisive in favour of the Erasmian view, and which is not open to very plausible and widely accepted alternative interpretations that many commentators continue to defend today.

(c) The reading mē epi porneiai is much more ambiguous as an exceptive clause for remarriage than the phrase invented by Erasmus.

(d) Erasmus also changed the reading in the Latin Vulgate of Matthew 19:9 in such a way as to widen the exemption clause.

So I would submit, this is a good example of a theologically motivated corruption to the TR by Erasmus. This in itself should be enough for anyone to reject King James Onlyism. I will be intrigued to see what your friend comes up with to explain this particular issue away.”

[End of Bible critics comments]

My Response -

First of all, it is obvious that this friend of yours does not believe that any Bible in any language is now or ever was the complete and inerrant words of God.

Just ask him to show you a copy of what he really believes is the inerrant Bible in ANY language - including “the” Greek and Hebrew. My bet is that he will never do it.

Secondly, it would have been more than a little difficult for Erasmus to have changed the Latin Vulgate reading found in Matthew 19:9 since he was not born till about 11 centuries later.

Thirdly, in the King James Bible we read: “And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”

The modern Vatican supervised Critical text versions like the NASB, ESV, NIV, NET, Holman, etc. all have THE SAME MEANING.

NASB 1995 - “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, EXCEPT FOR immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

ESV 2016 - “And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, EXCEPT FOR sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

NIV 2011 - “ I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, EXCEPT FOR sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The only difference translation wise is that the KJB is far more accurate when it says “except it be for FORNICATION”, which is a specific sexual sin, whereas the phony new versions use the open ended “you define it as you want to” vague term of “sexual immorality”.

See my article “Fornication or immorality - Sodomites or something else?”


Fourthly, when we look at the Greek texts here, what we see is a cluster of variant readings.

The Reformation Textus Receptus reads: “ει μη επι πορνεια” = except [it be] for fornication.

The so called “oldest and best manuscripts”, Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, do not even agree with each other here.

Sinaiticus reads μὴ ἐπὶ πορνείᾳ καὶ γαμήσῃ ἄλλην, and this is the text adopted by Westcott and Hort and the Vatican supervised Critical Greek text of Nestle-Aland.

However Vaticanus has a completely different reading and says παρεκτὸς λόγου πορνείας ποιεῖ αὐτὴν μοιχᾶται. But even though it reads παρεκτὸς λόγου πορνείας instead of μὴ ἐπὶ πορνείᾳ (All three words are different, and two of them are radically different) yet it comes out to mean the same thing.

Literally the Vaticanus reading would be “except for reason of fornication”.

And manuscript D reads differently than both Sinaiticus or Vaticanus with παρεκτὸς λόγου πορνείας καὶ γαμήσῃ ἄλλην, differing from Vaticanus in the last 3 words, and different from Sinaiticus in all of them!

And these are his so called “oldest and best manuscripts”!

But even with all these textual differences here, the meaning comes out to be the same. Just different ways of expressing the same idea.

Even the Modern Greek Bible, which uses modern Greek rather than New Testament Greek, makes up its own text in modern speech Greek, but it comes out to MEAN THE SAME THING.

It reads: εκτος δια πορνειαν και νυμφευθη αλλην = except for fornication and marries another

The reading found in the Textus Receptus of Scrivener 1894 is ει μη επι πορνεια και γαμηση αλλην. This is also the reading apparently found in Erasmus, and it is that of Stephanus 1550, Beza 1598, and the Elzevir brothers Textus Receptus of 1624 - ει μη επι πορνεια

Your “scholar wannabe” friend is making much ado about absolutely nothing, and is seeing “errors” where none exist.

He is his own authority, and it looks like not a very knowledgable one at that. Again, ask him to show you a copy of this complete and inerrant Bible he supposedly believes in. My bet is that he won’t be able to do it.

I hope this has been of some help to you, brother.

The King James Bible is always right, and the Bible critics just can’t stand it.
 
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