Maximo in Hermas from Tischendorf to James Donaldson to David Daniels

Steven Avery

Administrator
Codex Sinaiticus Project
Codex Sinaiticus - Quire 93 - Folio 2r - Hermas 5:3 - 7:4 - BL folio: 342 scribe: B2 -
http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/...lioNo=2&lid=en&quireNo=93&side=v&zoomSlider=0

Pic here.

From David

1668934196374.png


bottom of column 4
1668934419231.png


4
εριϲ δε μαξιμω ε̣ι
δου θλιψειϲ ερχε
ται
εαν ϲοι φανη
παλιν αρνηϲαι
εγγυϲ κϲ τοιϲ επι
ϲτρεφομενοιϲ
ωϲ γεγραπται εν

εριϲ δε μαξιμω ε̣ι δου θλιψειϲ ερχε ται

==========================

Pure Bible Forum

superb resources for Hermas (and Barnabas) linguistics
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...ces-for-hermas-and-barnabas-linguistics.2846/

Maximo in Hermas from Tischendorf to James Donaldson to David Daniels
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...orf-to-james-donaldson-to-david-daniels.2851/

Tischendorf 1860 Hermas retraction - Notitia editionis codicis Bibliorum Sinaitici
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...is-codicis-bibliorum-sinaitici.93/#post-11786

the James Donaldson linguistic argument that Barnabas and Hermas are not 4th century
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...-and-hermas-are-not-4th-century.140/#post-336

Charts - Pages from David Daniels Book
James Donaldson - Hermas latinisms and later Greek words in the David Daniels book
https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...r-greek-words-in-the-david-daniels-book.1471/

==========================

The Anton Hilhorst book helps find the Tischendorf accusation pages.

Anton Hilhorst
Sémitismes et latinismes dans le Pasteur d'Hermas (1976)
https://books.google.com/books?id=bU7PvgEACAAJ
https://repository.ubn.ru.nl/handle/2066/148525

Although it was already here:

Tischendorf 1860 Hermas retraction - Notitia editionis codicis Bibliorum Sinaitici



Thus, it can be used for other Tischendorf accusation pages pre-Donaldson.
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Tischendorf

Hermae Pastor. Gr. ed. ex fragmentis Lipsiensibus A.F.C. Tischendorf. Ex ed. Patrum apostolicorum Dresseliana centum exemplis repetitum (1856)
Tischendorf
https://books.google.com/books?id=osAHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR15

Patrum apostolicorum opera: Textum ad fidem codicum et Graecorum et Latinorum, ineditorum copia insignium, adhibitis praestantissimis editionibus, recensuit atque emendavit, notis illustravit , versione latina passim correcta, prolegominis, indicibus
Tischendorf
https://books.google.com/books?id=_xpWAAAAMAAJ&pg=PR54

These two books are given as the accusation books by August Hilhorst.

================================

Patrum apostolicorum opera: Textum ad fidem codicum et Graecorum et Latinorum, ineditorum copia insignium, adhibitis praestantissimis editionibus, recensuit atque emendavit, notis illustravit , versione latina passim correcta, prolegominis, indicibus (1857)
https://books.google.com/books?id=ggib8P8vzXIC&pg=PR54

1668928725629.png

Plus eliam, si fieri potest, alter locus valet. Vis. II, 3. Graece scriptum est: (Greek) jErei'" deV Maxivmw/ jIdouV qlivyi'" e[rcetai.1 At quid tandem Maximus iste sibi vult, quum per totum librum nulli Maximo locus sit? Quid rei esset, non latuisse videtur Simonidem, vel potius doctum Simonidis adiutorem Lipsicnsem: eorum enim opera repositum atquc post etiam editum est: ' (Greek) quo cognito ad «Maximum" explicandum non opus est Oedipo. Vulgatus textus Latinus habet: „Dices autem: Ecce magna (Vat. cod. Magna ecce) tribulatio venit." Inde quae Graecae lectioni lux affulget, paullo curiosius inquirenti iam satis erit. Ne tamen quicquam ad explanandam rem et ad persuadendum ipsis incredulis nobis desit, Pal. codex — id quod iam ante hos duo fere menses cum R. Anger viro doctissimo communicavi — non modo «Maxima ecce“ praebet, sed ipsum vitium Graeci textus, teste Alberto Dressel, accuratissime praeit hunc in modum: «Dicis autem maximo. Ecce tribulatio supervenit."

I will add, if possible, that the second place is worth it. Visions 2, 3. (=Hermas 7.4) It is written in Greek: '(Greek 6 words + English translation-) from CSP: εριϲ δε μαξιμω ε̣ι δου θλιψειϲ ερχε ται'. But in the end, what does Maximus want for himself, since throughout the whole book there is no room for Maximus? It seems that Simonides, or rather the learned assistant of Simonides from Leipzig, did not hide what was the matter (Greek 7 word plus translation): for their work was stored and published afterwards: : Behold a great (Vat. cod. Behold great) tribulation is coming." From this, the light that will shine on the Greek lesson, will be enough for a little more curious inquirer. However, let us not lack anything to explain the matter and to convince the unbelievers themselves, Pal. The codex - that which I already shared with R. Anger, a very learned man, almost two months ago - not only provides "Behold the greatest", but the very defect of the Greek text, as witnessed by Alberto Dressel, very accurately points out in this way: "But you say to the greatest. Behold, trouble has come."

The iota subscript underneat the omega ω makes it the dative case makes it "Hermas to Maximo" on μαξιμω

search "εριϲ δε μαξιμω ε̣ι"
Maximo text from Tischendorf
1860
https://books.google.com/books?id=DpI4EOWye7MC&pg=RA8-PA143
1863
https://books.google.com/books?id=LBqHZmhzLgwC&pg=RA3-PA143
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
James Donaldson

Key page on Tischendorf accusation and retraction
https://books.google.com/books?id=tMlDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA308

Search the Latin words

Bring more over from Donaldson page

Donaldson on Hermas
1864
https://books.google.com/books?id=StcCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA310
1874
https://archive.org/details/apostolicalfath01donagoog/page/390/mode/2up

1668986264977.png

Then there occurs this passage, (Greek-1 6 words same as Tisch)’ . The common Latin translation is: ‘ Dices autem; ecce magna tribulatio venit.’ Now here there is no trace of the (Greek-2a). But we find it in the Palatine, ‘ Dicis autem maximo: ecce tribulatio, which Dressel changes into * Dicis autem; maxima ecce tribulatio.’ The Palatine accounts well for the origin of (Greek-2b). in the Sinaitic Greek, but it is not possible to account for the common 'magna' if (Greek-2c). had been originally in the Greek.

=========================

All these examples have been taken from the Sinaitic Greek. But the arguments become tenfold stronger if the Sinaitic Greek is to stand or fall with the Athos Greek. And this must be, for they are substantially the same. No doubt some allowance must be made for the carelessness of transcribers, but after every allowance is made, there is enough to convict both texts of a late origin, and to make it extremely probable that both are translations from the Latin".
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Miscellaneous Authors on the Maximo Hermas text

Dressel is given by Tischendorf
"Dicis autem maximo. Ecce tribulatio supervenit"
but originally it has to be early
Dressel - Hilgenfeld Pierson Grosse-Brauckmann

Patrum apostolicorum opera. Textum ad fidem codicum et Graecorum et Latinorum, ineditorum copia insignium, adhibitis praestantissimis editionibus, recensuit atque emendavit ... instruxit Albertus Rud. Max. Dressel. Accedit Hermae Pastor ex fragmentis Graecis Lipsiensibus, instituta quaestione de vero emus textus fonte, auctore Constantino Tischendorf (1857)
https://books.google.com/books?id=5AdyYVZXS40C&pg=PR54
https://books.google.com/books?id=G_nXUGUSHY0C&pg=PA419

Leipziger repertorium der deutschen und ausländischen literatur: Ier-cviier jahrgang, Volumes 63-64 (1858)
https://books.google.com/books?id=vnADAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA73
https://books.google.com/books?id=vnADAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA77

Patrum apostolicorum opera
https://books.google.com/books?id=zEoaAAAAMAAJ&pg=PR54

Hilgenfeld (1876)
https://books.google.com/books?id=It5JAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PR6

================================

Allard Pierson (1831-1896)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allard_Pierson

reviews Tischendorf including accusations in 1857, Maximo not mentioned

Godgeleerde en wijsgeerige opstellen, Volume 1 (1857)
Allard Pierson
https://books.google.com/books?id=y61pAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA55

1668933171296.png


================================

Also we look for searches of Maximo Maximus Maximum (at least two)
and either Hermas or Hermae or Ermas
There is a Maximo issue on Barnabas c. 1700

Emil Grosse-Brauckmann (1867-1961)
https://www.deutsche-biographie.de/pnd1034701843.html?language=en

De compositione Pastoris Hermae... (1910)
Emil Grosse-Brauckmann
https://books.google.com/books?id=QO02AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA9
p. 9-10

1668984990977.png


================================
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
David W. Daniels
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z3JGDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT145
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z3JGDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT146

And one example above all convinced me that Simonides’ Lipsiensis and the Sinaiticus Hermas both seem back-translated from the Vatican Palatine Codex: Visions ii.3. There is more than one numbering system. Online it’s called Hermas 7:4.

1668934897677.png

As Donaldson showed, it’s supposed to say “But say thou, behold, great tribulation cometh.” In Latin, great is “magna.” in Greek, great is “megale.” And “thlipsis megale” is exactly the term “great tribulation” used three times in the New Testament.
But the Vatican’s Palatine Codex changed “magna” to “maximo.” That’s like changing “great” to “greatest.” Or, Maximo could be the name of a person, “Maximus.” Either way, it’s the wrong word. Guess what Simonides’ Lipsiensis says? Maximo!

Guess what the Sinaiticus did with the Greek? It also transliterated Maximo!
1668935082511.png


In fact, in Donaldson’s words, “Now we find that the text of the Pastor of Hermas found in the Sinaitic codex is substantialiy the same as that given in the Athos manuscript. The variations are comparatively slight.”

He also wrote:

Then there is a considerable number of passages preserved to us in Greek by Origen and other writers. The Sinaitic Greek differs often from this Greek, and agrees with the Latin translation, especially the Palatine.

And there isn’t anything earlier they could have copied.

=================

Check my Kindle and book
1668935422821.png


Check which papyri
Check Vulgate Latin
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
P Bodmer38
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...s-and-hermas-are-not-4th-century.140/post-336

In the quote above, when it said
"E sembra presuppore (ma dopo Μαξιμω) μεγαλη."
E seems to presuppose (But after 'Maximo'), megale."
E is Ethiopic
is the note on p. 73 is saying that Ethiopic translation seems to reflect Maximus rather than magna?

Bodmer 38 having:
ις δε Μαχιμω ιδου θλιψεις ερχε

the same dubious reading as Sinaiticus, that looks like it comes from a Latin retorversion, lessens the ability to use this as a singular late dating Sinaiticus evidence.

==================

Brent Nongbri
to Images here

================================

This can go up top
Codex Sinaiticus Project
. εριϲ δε μαξιμω ε̣ιδου θλιψειϲ ερχεται εαν ϲοι φανη δοκη παλιν αρνηϲαι εγγυϲ κϲ τοιϲ επιϲτρεφομενοιϲ ωϲ γεγραπται εν τω ε ελδαδ και ωδατ μωδατ μωδατ τοιϲ προφητευϲαϲιν εν (verso) τη ερημω τω λαω ·


================================






Skip the Rest



Are there any papyri, check David and check


1668935781553.png

1668935748175.png


Rob Heaton - charts of papyri and Sinaiticus section in Hermas
https://www.academia.edu/30358177/T...e_Unchristened_Text_of_the_Shepherd_of_Hermas
https://udenver.academia.edu/RobHeaton/CurriculumVitae
https://robheaton.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/shepherd-mss-robheaton-com1.pdf
https://robheaton.com/category/shepherd-of-hermas/
PBF page

Only P. Harris 1.128 is possible for Maximo!

The Shepherd of Hermas: A Literary, Historical, and Theological Handbook (2021)
Jonathon Lookadoo
https://books.google.com/books?id=4ZYXEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA25

1668961644460.png


A New Papyrus of the Shepherd of Hermas (1947)
Kilpatrick, George Dunbar
https://academic.oup.com/jts/article-abstract/os-XLVIII/191-192/204/1705368
http://jts.oxfordjournals.org/content/os-XLVIII/191-192/204.extract

Lookadoo, Kirkpatick paper or Birmingham Library
looks like no, this is 5,7 so cannot be 7.4


====================

Heaton
P.Amh. 190/197 is a collection of seven small double-sided papyrus fragments from all three sections of the Shepherd.
.... The fifth- or sixth-century fragments are hosted online by the Pierpont Morgan Library and Museum of New York:

The Amherst papyri : being an account of the Greek papyri in the collection of the Right Hon. Lord Amherst of Hackney, F. S. A. at Didlington Hall, Norfolk / by Bernard P. Grenfell and Arthur S. Hunt. London : Oxford University Press, 1900-1901.

Pierpont Morgan Library Amherst Greek Papyrus 190a-k, 197.
https://www.themorgan.org/manuscript/350529

Grenfell and Hunt
https://books.google.com/books?id=3FUPAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA195
(nothing with Visions 7)

====================

P Oxy 4706
http://163.1.169.40/cgi-bin/library...POxy&cl=CL3.13&d=HASH017c2113c35341dd96715728

P.Oxv.LXIX 4706
Hermas, Visiones III 4.3, 6.6, 9.6-7,13.3-IV 1.1, 7-9;
Mandata II4-5, IV 1.1, 3.6,4.3-4, V 1.6-7, VI 1.3-5, VH 5, VHI 6, IX 7-8, X 1.1-2
ed. N. Gonis
Hermas, Visiones III 4.3, 6.6, 9.6-7, 13.3-IV 1.1, 7-9; Mandata II 4-5, IV 1.1, 3.6, 4.3-4, V 1.6-7, VI 1.3-5, VII 5, VIII 6, IX 7-8, X 1.1-2
P.Oxy.LXIX 4706

======================
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Englisth Translatons of Hermas


Early Christian Sources
Hermas - English Translations
http://early.xpian.info/eng/shepherdofhermas.html


William Wake - Frederick Crombie - John Prideaux Lightfoot - Charles Taylor - Kirsopp Lake - Ehrman - Holmes

The URL will go directly to the Maximo page in Visions II.3

William Wake (1657-1737) 1719 edition
https://books.google.com/books?id=w4Pu-LpxW40C&pg=PA344

Frederick Crombie (1827-1889) 1867 edition
https://books.google.com/books?id=WsEUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA331

John Prideaux Lightfoot - (1803-1887) 1891 edition
https://books.google.com/books?id=VT9tuM7y8LEC&pg=PA409


Charles Taylor (1840-1908) 1903 edition
https://books.google.com/books?id=-Rg0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA69

Kirsopp Lake (1872-1946) 1917 edition
https://archive.org/details/apostolicfathers02lakeuoft/page/22/mode/2up

Bart Ehrman - translated 2001
https://books.google.com/books?id=m7B23xenMX4C&pg=PA191[/URL[B][SIZE=5]][/SIZE][/B]
[B][SIZE=5]Michael W. Holmes tran.../books?id=PS3ex0LORF4C&pg=PA210[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Anonymous 2013

Charles H. Hoole
George A Jackson
Joseph M.-F. Marique
Edgar J. Goodspeed
Graydon F. Snyder

Carolyn Osiek


Daniel Robison
Rick Brannon



The Genuine Epistles of the Apostolical Fathers: St. Barnabas, St. Ignatius, St. Clement, St. Polycarp, The Shepherd of Hermas; and the Martyrdoms of St. Ignatius and St. Polycarp, Written by Those who Were Present at Their Sufferings: Being, Together with the Holy Scriptures of the New Testament, a Complete Collection of the Most Primitive Antiquity for about a Hundred and Fifty Years After Christ (1817)
William Wake (1657-1737)
https://books.google.com/books?id=w4Pu-LpxW40C&pg=PA344
1719
https://books.google.com/books?id=Y7FWAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA207
1880
https://archive.org/details/apocryphalnewtes00hone/page/200/mode/2up


1669086680884.png


The Writings of the Apostolic Fathers (1867)
Frederick Crombie (1827-1889)
https://books.google.com/books?id=WsEUAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA331
1669088561153.png

1669088588906.png

https://books.google.com/books?id=IbYakBFASigC

Apostolic Fathers (1898)
John Prideaux Lightfoot
https://books.google.com/books?id=VT9tuM7y8LEC&pg=PA409

1669085787052.png


Kirsopp Lake (1912)
https://archive.org/details/apostolicfathers02lakeuoft/page/22/mode/2up

1669088126603.png


Apostolic Fathers,vol. 2 (Ehrman,LCL25)
Bart Ehrman
https://books.google.com/books?id=m7B23xenMX4C&pg=PA191


1668985175787.png

3. How fortunate are all those who do righteousness. They will never perish. 4. Say to Maximus, ‘See, affliction is coming. If it seems right to you, make another denial.’1 The Lord is near to those who convert, as is written in the Book of Eldad and Modat,2 who prophesied to the people in the
wilderness.”

Michael W. Holmes
https://books.google.com/books?id=PS3ex0LORF4C&pg=PA210

1668985835082.png


English
Charles Taylor - 2 Volumes
https://books.google.com/books?id=-Rg0AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA69
Vol 2
http://google.com/books?id=afQ2AAAAMAAJ

1669955425289.png
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Todo
Vulgata and Palatine ms.

Compare Donaldson claim and Hilhorst analysis

Boston College

Exordium copied from Palatine?

More on Tisch analysis
More on Donaldson words
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
The Hilhorst error in analysing Donaldson.

He places Donaldson as arguing for an original Latin, like Turner.

====================================

Some are discussed here
Bill Brown
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...nd-hermas-are-not-4th-century.140/#post-11519
Joseph Verheyden on Barnabas - Donaldson1874 (p316) some words answered
http://books.google.com/books?id=_LwOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA316

====================================

Donaldson transcription word examples
such as αγαθωτάτης , μεθιστάνει " , οίδας , αφίουσιν , ( αφίνουσιν in Sim . Greek ) , κατέκοπταν , ένεσκιρωμένοι , επεδίδουνά , έτίθουνά , begide ετίθεσαν , έσχαν , λήμψης ...

https://www.google.com/search?q="th...HYwRAk0Q_AUoA3oECAIQBQ&biw=1360&bih=594&dpr=1

Late Origin

Will list later
1 - "those that indicate that the Greek is of late origin"
2 - "and those which tend to prove that the Greek text is derived from some Latin translation."
(1) The late origin of the Greek is indicated by the occurrence of a great number of words unknown to the classical period, but common in later or modern Greek.(1)

1 -
1669035579486.png


βουνός l
σύμβιος ( as wife ) m ,
μέ ( for μετά n ) .
πρωτοκαθεδριεῖς ,
σχυροποιῶ (missing letter) κατεπιθυμῶ o
ἀσυγκρασίαν p
κατάχυμα q ,
ἐξακριβάζομαιr r

1 - The lateness of the Greek appears also from late forms ; such as

1669035521548.png


αγαθωτάτης s
μεθιστάνει t
οίδας
αφίουσιν u ( αφίνουσιν in Sim . Greek ) ,
κατέκοπταν x
ένεσκιρωμένοι y
επεδίδουνά , z
έτίθουνά ,a

beside
ετίθεσαν b
έσχαν c
λήμψης d
ελπίδαν e
τιθώ f
επέριψας

and
ήνοιξας g
είπασα h
χείραν i
απλότητας κ ....
σάρκαν l
συνιῶm m
συνίει n

; and some modern Greek forms , such as
κρατάουσα for κратоvσα , (Visions 3:8) have been corrected by the writer of the manuscript
.
is this visions 3:8 Shepherd of Hermas, 14:2 - 16:3 library: BL folio: 344 scribe: B2

Verse 3, Quire 93, Folio 4,
not

Shepherd of Hermas, Chapter 16, Verse 3, Quire 93, Folio 4, recto
ακουε νυν ταϲ ενεργιαϲ αυτων η μεν κρατ̣ο̣υ ︴ πρωτη αυτων ωᵨ η κραταουϲα κρατουϲα κρατουϲα ταϲ χιραϲ πιϲτιϲ
1669038438321.png



maybe answered by


Do Right

The lateness of the Greek appears also in the absence of the optative and the frequent use of ἵνα (hina) after ... ερωταν, αξιω, αιτουμαι, εντελλομαι, αξιος

This requires the consultation with a native fluent Greek, classical and Biblical Greek skilled person.


1669036880092.png

περιχαρὴς τοῦ ἰδεῖνt t ,
σπουδαῖος εἰς τὸ γνώναι ,u
απεγνωρίσθαι απόs x


joined with a plural verb,
krývŋ čрxovтaι y

Most, if not all, of these peculiarities now mentioned, may be found in Hellenistic writings, especially the New Testament; and some of them may be paralleled even in classical writers. But if we consider that the portion which has now been examined is small, and that every page is filled with these peculiarities, the only conclusion to which we can come is, that the Greek is not the Greek of the at least first five centuries of the
Christian era. There is no document written within that period which has half so many neo-Hellenic forms, taken page by page, as this Greek of the Pastor of Hermas.

SOME MORE TO LIST
1669115927465.png

All are Sinaiticus pre-New Finds
1669035168959.png


(2) LATER
1669037496493.png

some allowance must be made for the carelessness of transcribers, but after every allowance is made, there is enough to convict both texts of a late origin, and to make it extremely probable that both are translations from the Latin".
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
The Full Tischendorf Section
Tischendorf

Compare Tischendorf with the pages and spots highlighted by Daniels from Donaldson
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...rds-in-the-david-daniels-book.1471/#post-5807

We need some of these in transcription with definition.

We want to focus on Tischendorf when he is talking about spots and words the same in Sinaiticus.


Hermae Pastor. Gr. ed. ex fragmentis Lipsiensibus A.F.C. Tischendorf. Ex ed. Patrum apostolicorum Dresseliana centum exemplis repetitum (1856)
Tischendorf
https://books.google.com/books?id=osAHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR15

Use this one, the section is clearer

Patrum apostolicorum opera: Textum ad fidem codicum et Graecorum et Latinorum, ineditorum copia insignium, adhibitis praestantissimis editionibus, recensuit atque emendavit, notis illustravit , versione latina passim correcta, prolegominis, indicibus
Tischendorf
https://books.google.com/books?id=_xpWAAAAMAAJ&pg=PR54

Section begins on p. 44

DE HERMA GRAECO LIPSIENSI.

p. 47
1669033644548.png


Quae animadverteram, pro rei quae milii videlwitur gravitate
facere non potui quin eum editore principe viro S. V. communica-
rem, non praeteriens quid luris eandem ad quaestionem aderret nova
textus Latini recensio ai» AII». Drcssel ex rnd. Palatino Komaiio hausta.
Ille vero, quo explicaret nesciens, nec ignorans quantopere a falsato
Simonidis apograplio verum differret, quamquam non negligenda pu-
tabat a me primum observata, quorum auctoritatem magnopere au-
gebat lorus ex bistoria fraudis Simonideae Lipsiensis iam notissi-
mus'), tamen meam in sententiam liaud concessit: urgebat enim
quum alia quaedam — ut Qa&u Maml. X, 1. rollalo apud
Clementem Alexandrinum6) — tum eum qui inter textum ex Atho
monte ad nos advectum et Graeca Hermae fragmenta a veteribus
allata esset egregium consensum. Quibus diligenter perpensis ut
meam mutarem sententiam moveri non potui. Quum autem, ut ex
ipsa «I. pr. modo exscriptum est, quaestio iu universa bac caussa
gravissima sit de fontibus tideque fontium textus Graeci a Simonide,
inventi, iiobisque bac de re longe aliter videatur atque editori prin-
cipi, qui curiosa disrrtaque explicatione antiquissimam Graecam tex-
tus illius originem docere studuit sibique. «salis superque“ (pag. XV.)
docuisse videtur, dicemus breviter — quemadmodum per otium licet
allxinun mole nunc ipsum obrutis7) —• quibus potissimum argumen-
tis nostra nitatur sententia.

Just explains the Palatine connection and reactions.

=======================

middle of p. 48 examples

1669033732064.png

Habet enim, ut aliquid certe exemplorum addamus.
(certainly add some expamples)

1669115556269.png

use this on the Donaldson list also

BOLD is in Sinaiticus

Vis
. II, 4. „per te" (Graece A), non „aperte“;

Sim. VIII, 10. ..difficile autem aliquis eorum morietur" (Graece B), non, difficile autem movebuntur";

Mand. VI, 2. „fidelis" (Graece C). non „felicissimus": cf. prolegg. ed. pr. pag. XXI.

Item Mand. IV, I. pro vulgatis: „tll autem semper memor esto domini, omnibus horis, et nunquam peccabis" Pal. codex halet: „sed coniugis semper memor tuae carebis hoc peccatum" (Graece D)

Item Vis. II, 1. pro vulgatis „Cum vero proficiscerer cum bis" (quod ipsum Alb. Ilressel recte edendum curavit „Cumis“) habet: „Cum apud regionem Cumanorum iter facerem" (Graece E)

Item Vis. IV, 2.
pro „praesidia“ habet „flagella" (Graece F) Cf. prolegg. ed. pr. pag. XX.

=======================
leads to p. 48 conclusion

1669033768987.png

part of footnote of p. 50

8) Addamus exempla duo textus Graeci ex hac ipsa Doctrina petita, unde multo probabilius fit fragmentis Lipsiensibus interpretationem Latini textus, factam illam quidem adhibitis veterum excerptis, quam ipsius Hermae antiquum textum Graecum contineri.

8) Let us add two examples of the Greek text requested from this very Doctrine, which makes it much more probable that the Lipsian fragments are an interpretation of the Latin text, made indeed by the use of ancient extracts, than that the ancient Greek text of Hermas itself is contained.

Mandates XII, 4
1669033902928.png


Conclusion on p. 55
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Steven Avery

Administrator
These three from Tischendorf should be checked to see if they are in Donaldson


Vis. II, 1. pro vulgatis „Cum vero proficiscerer cum bis" (quod ipsum Alb. Ilressel recte edendum curavit „Cumis“) habet: „Cum apud regionem Cumanorum iter facerem" (Graece E)

Vis. II, 4. „per te" (Graece A), non „aperte“;

Vis. IV, 2.
pro „praesidia“ habet „flagella" (Graece F) Cf. prolegg. ed. pr. pag. XX.
this is Donaldson b

1669180842706.png

Donaldson
1669180668391.png
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Last edited:

Steven Avery

Administrator
Email from Paolo Cecconi

2) we have several other manuscripts of 4th century in good condition
4) (see for Instance concerning the Codex Athous the studies of Brigitte Mondrain)

critical edition of Manlio Simonetti (1926-2017) 2015 (Mondadori) first and the only one which quoted the new leaves of the Sinaiticus after
https://danbatovici.com/2019/06/29/apostolic-fathers-italian-editions/
Manlio Simonetti, Seguendo Gesù: testi cristiani delle origini, volumes 1 & 2 (Scrittori greci e latini; Milan: Mondadori, 2010 & 2015).
Emanuela Prinzivalli and Manlio Simonetti, Seguendo Gesù: testi cristiani delle origini, volumes 1 & 2 (Scrittori greci e latini; Milan: Mondadori, 2010 & 2015). You can find ToCs on the academia.edu page of E. Prinzivalli.
The editors dispense with the “Apostolic Fathers” designation, which they find—not only artificial and modernly constructed, but also—ideologically loaded (p. xiv), and use a descriptive title, “Following Jesus,” which in a sense made the contents of the volume less obvious
In terms of contents, this collection is minimalist: it contains the Didache, 1 Clement, Ignatius of Antioch’s seven letters (in vol. 1), and the Letter of Polycarp, the Letter of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas (in vol. 2). As such, it does not include 2 Clement, the Martyrdom of Polycarp, the fragments of Papias or Quadratus, or Ad Diognetum (which would have made a nice third volume!).

paper for Res Publica Litterarum of 2010 (academia).
My paper of 2010
Il Pastore di Erma e i nuovi fogli del codex Sinaiticus
https://www.torrossa.com/resources/an/2912369
https://www.academia.edu/9403593/Il...es_Publica_Litterarum_33-34_2010-11_S.112-143
comparison of New Finds of Hermas with Codex Athous taking into account Tischendorf-edition and the CSP

J. K Elliott)
(Anton Hilhorst)
Paolo Cecconi
 
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