the Sturtzas - Volkonsky letter given in Farmakidis, Tzar reference

Steven Avery

Administrator
Μετά το θάνατο του Καποδίστρια ο Στούρτζας πήγε στην Οδησσό. Από το 1824 και μέχρι το θάνατό του το 1854 αλληλογραφεί με τον Κωνσταντίνο Οικονόμου και ανταλλάσσουν απόψεις και γνώσεις σε εκκλησιαστικά και άλλα ζητήματα.

After the death of Kapodistrias, Sturtzas went to Odessa. From 1824 until his death in 1854 he corresponded with Konstantinos Oikonomou and they exchanged opinions and knowledge on ecclesiastical and other matters.

Then the lead in is Alexandros Sturtzas to the Tzar.


Alexandros Sturtzas writes in Volkonsky 318 in June 1851 319:

"Simonides has indeed lived some time ago in the Holy Monasteries of Athos, near the Archimandrites Benedictus and Procopius. The founder in 1842 sent his young protégé under the protection of his sister, Countess Edling Rosandra, who was then in Constantinople. My deceased sister then assigned Simonides to me so that I could attend his studies at the Hellenic Institute in Odessa. Then, after I noticed in him excellent abilities in calligraphy, painting and drawing, but little desire and lack of perseverance in the sciences, I sent him back to Greece, according to his wish."

Konstantinos says that he stayed three years with Sturtza, that is, he must have left Odessa in the middle of 1846.

318. The Tsar's General Secretary and Marshal Prince Volkonsky

319. Costantino Simonidis. Opere greche I. Eulyros di Cefalonia. ΕΘΝΙΚΑ ΑΝΘΡΩΠΙΝΑ. Liste di manoscritti greci (1818-1861). A cura di Luciano Canfora. Edizioni di Pagina 2012. Bari.

Post the full letter context.
As usual from Farmakidis, it's truncated and a snippet.
This is hilarious: "Konstantinos says" = Simon sez!
Firstly.
Is there some Greek text missing from your OCR'd text?
Look at this picture and the red arrows.
(continues)
Secondly.
Is this the entire letter contents? Or is there context and content omitted?
Thirdly.
What is the precise/exact source and provenance of the Sturdza-Volkonsky letter? (Footnote 318 appears to be intentionally ambiguous without precise source references) Is it from a diary? A biography? A secondary source?
Provide details, otherwise it goes into a suspicious provenance (is it a Simonides fake???) category until the details of it's origin are cleared up.

The OCR text for the Sturdza-Volkonsky letter is inaccurate for a start (compare your screenshot Greek with the Greek in your post = needs fixing). Therefore the translation is wrong and misleading. Fix your errors. ;)

This is minor tweaking of no great significance.
If you want to improve the Greek OCR transcription and/or the English translation, go right ahead.
If there is any English translation or Greek transcription OCR that does not match with a Greek picture, I will happily find and add the Greek pic. Usually I would do between footnotes.

Keep in mind, I am simply working with the book.
Occasionally, if I think something is real important, I try to get additional feedback from Nicolos Farmakidis.
To me, these questions are not that important right now. e.g. There is a lot of material related to Constantius and Anthimus V that I would like to have more background and in one case more clarity. And maybe Nicolas has seen material related to the coffee shop of Hadji John Prodromos. Those types of questions are more significant than asking for every little detail around the Alexandros Stourtza letter.




Let it go on record that we're asking you (Steven) to contact Farmakidis on our behalf, to request the exact source and provenance with a full and public disclosure of the entire Sturdza-Volkonsky letter contents to be conveyed to us and posted online on this thread and forum for all to see.
Why not contact him yourself?

You and I have the exact same information.
Remember, his theory is a little different, involving Sinai-Tischendorf collaboration as his main (non-dogmatic) theory. Thus he might not focus in on the Simonides-Sinaiticus narrative to the degree that we do on this forum.



Where is the Sturdza-Volkonsky letter from?

Is it real? Or a fake?

There's no references to an archive or place where the original (if there is one) is stored which is the normal procedure.

Kevin McGrane let everyone know where the Kaupstin letters and related material can be found in his footnotes etc, but not so the SART Team accusers!
======================

A delusion fabrication mind-reading accusation from:

Mr. Posturing Paranoia.


As I told you before, I only have the book material.

Sometimes I communicate with Nikolaos Farmakidis, on what I consider major issues, such as wondering about John Prodromos and the coffee-shop (he recommended checking with a Constantinople historian.)

He points out he is a civil engineer, interested in the history of Symi, and discusses a bit the interactions with the Rudiger Schaper book and with Luciano Canfora, who helped his book into Italian.

==================


For the record!

Exactly the kind of intentionally ambiguous and evasive reply that we've come to expect from you when you're actually sweeping something (you knew exactly where it was in Farmakidis book to quote it in the first place, and you knew it was addressed to Volkonsky) under the carpet.

The links are there.

You we're asked clear, specific, and easily understandable questions about it's source and provenance.

May God judge between you and me.


You're reply (Mr. Avery) should be something like...

We emailed N. Farmakidis on your behalf and for the sake of being honest and transparent to the public...

It's in the Russian State archives, file number bla bla...see at this website bla blah blah...

We followed up the reference to verify it's authenticity and provenance...

We don't accept hearsay (even from Farmakidis whom I publicly say is wrong on many things) evidence on face value we DOUBLE check everything...

Thatssss...the kind of reply you should be giving!

Instead of poor excuses for not doing your homework.

Issues you clearly want to deliberately avoid because the conspiracy party line and your KJVO agenda override the need to be intellectually honest, transparent, scholarly, and check (ironically) properly the letter's provenance!
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Most in German

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Steven Avery

Administrator

Have you looked up the Luciano Canfora source given by Farmakidis?

https://forums.carm.org/threads/cod...ate-simonides-story.19624/page-2#post-1630755

Alexandros Sturtzas writes in Volkonsky 318 in June 1851 319:

,,,

319. Costantino Simonidis. Opere greche I. Eulyros di Cefalonia. ΕΘΝΙΚΑ ΑΝΘΡΩΠΙΝΑ. Liste di manoscritti greci (1818-1861). A cura di Luciano Canfora. Edizioni di Pagina 2012. Bari.
If you are concerned about the letter and quote, that would be the proper starting point.

There is an index on p. 470.

========

Its called Document 13 and the reference goes back to p. 279:

Documento 13
Lettera di Sturdza a Volkonskij del 11 glugrio 1851

From issue - has front and back
1729815159617.png



For possible free access, Worldcat says this is at NYU, maybe you can get p. 279 sent to you.
https://search.worldcat.org/title/1402500626

========


  • Then you might want to continue with the material that follows.

My notes look incomplete so far, but the page I have them on is:

"some notes on Nikolas Farmakidis book"
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
TwoNoteableCorruptions said:


What's in the Russian Dossier?

Costantino Simonidis, o la pietas del falsario,
«Eikasmós» XXIV,
2013
Pages 491-503
By Federico Condello

Google Translate

“Constantine Simonides, or the Piety of the Forger,”
Oak Moss XXIV
2013,
Pages 491-503
By Frederick Condello

Pages 494-495

"From the Cephalonia of the anti-British riots to the hyper-orthodox Russia of Nicholas I, and his advisor Aleksandr Sturdza, the step is a short one. And it is the step that Simonidis took between 1850 and 1851, as exhaustively testified by the collection of documents that constitutes, for Ca.'s care, the second part of the volume. What is presented here is an updated, enlarged and duly post-illustrated version of the dossier exhumed by Igor Medvedev three to twelve years ago, in St. Petersburg, at the Kunik fund of the Academy of Sciences archives14. This is once again an extraordinary example, so to speak, of litterature potentielle: namely, the list of ancient manuscripts (pp. 206-259) that Simonidis sent, in January 1851, to the Russian scholar Andrei Nikolaevic Muraviev, a leading figure of the time, approached perhaps through Sturdza, or perhaps known to Simonidis already from the time of his youth on Athos (see Ca.'s well-founded reconstruction on pp. 183-188). A list so sensational-as many as 81 titles, from Homer and Hesiod to the Byzantine age-that it prompted Muravíev to involve first the Imperial Library of St. Petersburg, in the person of its Director, and then the History and Philology class of the Russian Academy of Sciences. The correspondence and expertises that followed are substantial, and are collected here, accompanying the library list, on pp. 260-284: the attitude of the Russian scholars was "cautious, but also ambiguous," Ca. observes (p. 197); so that the final verdict- a resounding niet -had to come from the Czar himself, in August 1851. The Russian list coincides only in part with the list attached to the ΚεφαλληνιακÌ, suavely related to the Symais book inventions. Simonidis's imagination certainly reveals its obsessive and recursive character: geographical interest remains prevalent, with a pronounced predilection for epitomes, and authors of insular Greekness abound; yetnew and wondrous manuscripts make their first appearance here: e.g., the Ἡσιıδου ἔπη in "ancient capital letters with bustrophedic script" (p. 221 nr. 2), enriched with "some unknown signs (perhaps the ancient musical signs)," and with unpublished novelties such as the Ἡσιıδου σιγαλλıεντα (sic) ἔπη written "in ancient shorthand signs"; or an Iliad with dedicadei Chii no less than to Hipparchus son of Pisistratus (p. 223 nr. 5), "written in a19-letter alphabet"; an Iliad plus Odyssey gift of Demas to Alexander (ibid. nr. 6), "in ancient-tactical capital letters, on very thin parchment of remarkable transparency"; the ῾Ομήρου ἔπη "written in Pelasgian script" and copied by Laostefano of Simi (p. 235 nr. 30); but neither is there any shortage of an epitome of the entire Diodorus Siculus drawn up by Mark of Ithaca (p. 227nr. 11) or the Golden Verses of Pythagoras "written in the original 16-letter alphabet" (p. 223 nr. 4)15. Given all this, impressive, on the part of the Commission charged with scrutinizing the offer 16, are not so much the expressions of skepticism or open disbelief-that is the least that can be expected-as the positive openings of credit toward Simonidis, and the moved amazement at a "discovery so unexpected" that "would be unique of its kind [in the] Renaissance" (p. 263). The academy's oscillating and at times pained attitude is even better documented by the notes and minutes that accompanied the drafting of the final report, and that were layered, by Kunik's hand, even in the following years: until 1856, when the scandal of the false Uranian palimpsest broke out in Berlin - and almost came close to an encore, with the false Shepherd of Hermas - and when by then several newspapers in Europe and America were denouncing Simonidis's subterfuge with one voice. Of such documents, too, in many respects revealing, the volume offers an accurate edition, introduced and annotated [Page 495] by Cu. (pp. 285-351). And what can one say: such a pronounced suspension of disbelief, such an irrational tendency-dictated, one might say, by sincere love of antiquity-to consider authentic that which everything denounces as false."

https://www.academia.edu/6178203/Costantino_Simonidis_o_la_pietas_del_falsario_Eikasm%C3%B3s_XXIV_2013_491_503?email_work_card=title


=========================

https://forums.carm.org/threads/cod...es-in-st-petersburg.15389/page-5#post-2030605

That Simonides himself says he sent the catalouge, manuscripts, etc, described as part of the Russian Dossier above 👆 can be seen below 👇


“The Periplus of Hannon, King of the Karchedonians, Concerning the Lybian Parts of the Earth Beyond Pillars of Herakles, which he dedicated to Kronos, the greatest God and to all the gods dwelling with Him, by Hanno.”
London, Trübner & Co.

No. 60, Paternoster Row.
1864.
Liverpool :
Printed by David Marples, Lord Street.

Page 65

"I myself made an extensive catalogue, of which I sent copies to the Patriarch Constantius, and Alexander Stourtzas, and a part of it to Andreas Mouravieff, the General of the late Emperor Nicolas; portions of this catalogue have already been published..."

https://archive.org/details/periplusofhannon0000hann/page/65/mode/1up
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
"perhaps known to Simonidis already from the time of his youth on Athos (see Ca.'s well-founded reconstruction on pp. 183-188)"
Is that in this book? Whose reconstruction?


yetnew .. yet new
niet - nyet
bustrophedic - boustrophedon
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
A bit of initial research info about the 1850-1851 period of his life.


Alexander Nikolaevich Muravyov
(Александр Николаевич Муравьёв)

Born October 10th, 1792, died December 18th, 1863

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Mouraviov
https://www.hrono.ru/biograf/bio_m/muravev_an.php

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7.6.1839, assigned to the Ministry of Internal Affairs - 15.4.1843, appointed a member of the Council of Ministers - 16.2.1846, carried out assignments to audit a number of provinces, actual state councilor - 18.9.1848. At his request, he was re-enlisted in the military and renamed a colonel of the General Staff - May 1851, a member of the Military Scientific Committee of the General Staff department, sent to Warsaw at the disposal of the command of the 1st and 2nd Grenadier Corps - July 1854, served at the General Staff of the active army - from August 1854, appointed acting chief of staff of the 2nd Infantry Corps - 7.1.1855, major general - 27.3.1855, participant in the Crimean War, on leave for treatment of cataracts - from 28.7.1855,Nizhny Novgorod Military Governor – September 10, 1856. Actively participated in preparations for the liberation of the serfs, belonged to the left wing of the liberal nobility, lieutenant general – April 1861, dismissed from office and by imperial order appointed senator with a transfer to Moscow – September 16, 1861. Died in Moscow, buried in the Novodevichy Convent. Memoirist.

https://www.hrono.ru/biograf/bio_m/muravev_an.php
 
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