Simonides and Champollion and hieroglyphics - Rosetta Stone - Genius

Steven Avery

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CONTEMPORARY SCIENCE.
In the case of old documents the evidences of their discoveries are far more difficult to obtain than proofs of their originality. Something in the documents themselves may prove or disprove this, but discovery is as likely to be made by some individual in a solitary place, nay, even very probably in secrecy; for who, seeking for old documents, is likely to ask or to obtain any one to accompany him on such an uncertain mission; and who, discovering them accidentally, is likely to be accompanied by any witness? Moreover, how such documents come into learned men's hands, we all know it is not always convenient to tell. These remarks apply very generally, and are not meant to apply specially to the "great row" now going on in the British archæological world. We, last week, noticed the exhibition of papyri and manuscripts by M. Simonides before the Royal Society of Literature, and stated that these objects would remain two days for free inspection. The learned have availed themselves of the occasion, and many have been, seen, and departed, we will not say believing, but some perhaps as wise, some perhaps wiser, and some perhaps less wise than they came. For the present, at least, we had rather not express much opinion as to who is right and who is wrong, as the Royal Society of Literature will, probably, comment on the exhibition at their next meeting. M. Simonides professes to be a champion of truth. The very numerous manuscripts he is reputed to possess, must have come into his hands, no doubt, by very various means. For some we have his special statements; and the two now causing the greatest excitement are the Mayer papyri and one volume of a reputed set of twentyfour or twenty-five palimpsest volumes-the Uranius.


 
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Steven Avery

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Kevin McGrane - Russian Investigations

p. 16-17
George Williams kept himself fully abreast of developments in Russia, for in November 1861 we find Williams writing to the London Times newspaper defending recent actions taken by the Russian government in respect of the wearing of military uniforms by their students at university. Williams was also a contributor to the Guardian and The Christian Remembrancer, both of which ran articles about the 'Simonides Affair', which started in September 1862, and he met Simonides in Cambridge the following month at a meeting of the British Association for the Advancement of Science.40

40 This meeting, the thirty-second, was impressively large and took place from October 1-7 in Cambridge. Simonides stayed in Cambridge with his interpreter friend Leonidas Drachachis, and during the course of the week publicly displayed his forgeries. Rev. George Williams was Vice- President of the Sectional Committee on Geography and Ethnology and read the paper Rev. Dr. Mill's Decipherment of the Phoenician Inscription on the Newton Stone, Aberdeenshire upon which Simonides commented, claiming to be able to interpret the inscription and attempting to do so. This was just one month after his explosive 'revelation' in the Guardian, which would have been noticed by many of the delegates at the meetings. On October 7 he was led into Cambridge library and the facsimile of the portion of Codex Sinaiticus that Tischendorf had removed from Sinai in 1844 (43 leaves) was set before him, which he claimed to be a facsimile of his work.


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https://books.google.com/books?id=S_RJAAAAcAAJ&pg=PR14
 
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Steven Avery

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Nikolos Farmakidis

Here is a question that I am just curious of your view, no right or wrong answer. Do you think that Simonides ideas about hieroglyphics may have had merit as improvements over Champollion and others. From my studies the whole area is murky!

Nikolos Farmakidis


I believe that Benedictus and the others had good knowledge in this field as well. I am not the only one to know, but bearing in mind that the Greeks knew hieroglyphics perfectly, they must have left behind a knowledge that was overshadowed by that of the French, etc. After all, in the period after the creation of the Greek state, the effort to disappear the knowledge of the Byzantines was great. I believe these thoughts are objective.
 
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Steven Avery

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Who Was Who in Egyptology (1971)
https://archive.org/details/whowaswhoinegypt0000warr/page/271/mode/1up
https://books.google.com/books?newb...ptology"&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=simonides
Warren Royal Dawson, Eric Parrington Uphill

SIMONIDES, Constantine (1824-1867)
Greek forger of papyri and manuscripts; he himself gave the date of his birth as 11 Nov. 1824, but subsequently ‘emended’ this to 5 Nov. 1820 so as to justify his claim that he wrote the Codex Sinaiticus in 1839; certain papyri belonging to Joseph Mayer being suspect, a committee of the R. Soc. Literature investigated the matter, and C. W. Goodwin detected the forgery; in 1856 the

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Steven Avery

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https://www. youtube.com/live/7zuFhEGHFMM?si=IoCAn7SRTIoTkcqt


1:39
 
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Steven Avery

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https://www.facebook.com/1000690785...iqATzX85svefNtPmgX8qnwzoAawKFhKJxw9kRT2mXZl/?


K. Ross Broadstock

Alan Wilson

Baram Blackett

Moses in the Hieroglyphs

The hieroglyphics was designed for everyone easily read and understand. Please get the book Cymroglyphics https://www.cymroglyphics.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=61

 
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Steven Avery

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Reddit


If you find a good analysis of the hieroglypics controversy, please share.

I think the most likely version is that the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics are part of a development of the Empire style in European art. The Rosetta Stone, which determined their interpretation, was 'discovered' during Napoleon's Egyptian campaign, accompanied by the Society of Dilettanti. It is likely that this society was engaged in the development of hieroglyphics initially.
now).

By the way, i noticed that you are interested in Bible, perhaps you would also be interested in this post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/forgeryreplicafiction/comments/pul04r
 

Steven Avery

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CARM

==========

George Cornewall Lewis (1806-1863)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cornewall_Lewis

“Lewis's final works were the Survey of the Astronomy of the Ancients, in which he applied sceptical analysis to the Egyptology of Christian Charles Josias von Bunsen …”

Some resources discussing GCL and hieroglyphs other than Periplus.

XXVI. On the method of interpreting Egyptian Hieroglyphics by Young and Champollion, with a vindication of its correctness from the strictures of Sir George Cornewall Lewis (1864)
Reginald Stuart Poole (1832-1895)
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...newall-lewis/9A58B84296293A5EB18B467151E77148

Reginald Stuart Poole (1832-1895)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reginald_Stuart_Poole

Archaeologia Or Miscellaneous Tracts Relating to Antiquity, Volume 39 (1863)
https://books.google.com/books?id=vTRFAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA471

Reviewed Works: Egyptian Chronicles, with a Harmony of Sacred and Egyptian Chronology, and an Appendix on Babylonian and Assyrian Antiquities by William Palmer; An Historical Survey of the Astronomy of the Ancients by George Cornewall Lewis
The North American Review, Vol. 96, No. 198 (Jan., 1863), pp. 111-118 (8 pages)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25100290
 
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Steven Avery

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Genius book

Search
hieroglyphics

Pasquale Massimo Pinto
p. 118
p. 121

Champollion
Anna Mykoniati German p. 103
Luciano Bossina p. 156
 
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Steven Avery

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Genius book


 

Steven Avery

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https://www.reddit. com/r/AlternativeHistory/comments/1bt7co1/did_hieroglyphics_crack_a_thousand_years_earlier/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Alternativ...hieroglyphics_crack_a_thousand_years_earlier/

Did hieroglyphics crack a thousand years earlier than thought?
Lost Civilizations

Western scholars were not the first to decipher the ancient language of the pharaohs, according to a new book that will be published later this year by a UCL researcher.
Dr Okasha El Daly of UCL's Institute of Archaeology will reveal that Arabic scholars not only took a keen interest in ancient Egypt but also correctly interpreted hieroglyphics in the ninth century AD - almost 1,000 years earlier than previously thought


Egyptology: The Missing Millennium: Ancient Egypt in Medieval Arabic Writings,
Okasha El Daly
is interesting … published in 2005.
Egyptology: The Missing Millennium brings together for the first time the disciplines of Egyptology and Islamic Studies, seeking to overturn the conventional opinion of Western scholars that Moslims/Arabs had no interest in pre-Islamic cultures. This book examines a neglected period of a thousand years in the history of Egyptology, from the Moslem annexation of Egypt in the seventh century CE until the Ottoman conquest in the 16th century. Concentrating on Moslem writers, as it is usually Islam which incurs blame for cutting Egyptians off from their ancient heritage, the author shows not only the existence of a large body of Arabic sources on Ancient Egypt, but also their usefulness to Egyptology today. Using sources as diverse as the accounts of travelers and treasure hunters to books on alchemy, the author shows that the interest in ancient Egyptian scripts continued beyond classical writers, and describes attempts by medieval Arab scholars, mainly alchemists, to decipher the hieroglyph script. He further explores medieval Arab interest in Ancient Egypt, discussing the interpretations of the intact temples, as well as the Arab concept of Egyptian kingship and state administration—including a case study of Queen Cleopatra that shows how the Arabic romance of this queen differs significantly from Western views. This book will be of great interest to academics and students of archaeology, Islamic studies and Egyptology, as well as anyone with a general interest in Egyptian history.






===—

Champollion was using an old book to translate hieroglyphic texts, which was the book of the Muslim scholar
Ibn Wahshiyya.


https://www.reddit.com/r/AlternativeHistory/comments/1bt7co1
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
From Reddit discussion
https://www.reddit.com/r/forgeryreplicafiction/comments/103dor5/_/m43jm7g
I recall that it was Champollion who translated the inscriptions on the Rosetta Stone ‘found’ by Denon during Bonaparte's campaign in Egypt in 1799. One word is taken in inverted commas, for Baron Denon is an exceptional expert in dirty and responsible operations; his name is like a warning sign in any case.


Denon and the Rosetta Stone are mentioned in the biography.
Baron Dominique Vivant Denon (1747-1825): Hedonist and Scholar in a Period of Transition (1975) Judith Nowinski https://books.google.com/books?id=oL4KiwiHlDQC&pg=PA85
Can you explain the "inverted commas"? Where they show up and the significance.

"His drawings even led to the excavations that followed and were soon to unearth that heavy plaque, the celebrated Rosetta Stone..." - i take it from this that it was Denon who pointed out where to dig.
Can you explain the "inverted commas"? Where they show up and the significance.
It is generally accepted that the stone was discovered by the engineer Bouchard, and usually Denon is tactfully omitted. That's why the inverted commas. Perhaps without the inverted commas would also be correct: found in the place indicated by Denon, instead of ‘found’ by Denon.
 

Steven Avery

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Above Post 29
Can we find connections here?

I think the most likely version is that the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics are part of a development of the Empire style in European art. The Rosetta Stone, which determined their interpretation, was 'discovered' during Napoleon's Egyptian campaign, accompanied by the Society of Dilettanti. It is likely that this society was engaged in the development of hieroglyphics initially.
 
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