Steven Avery
Administrator
This should be given more play ... e.g. Eureka and Palaeography forums.
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why the inconsistent colouring of the London 1859 Sinaiticus leaves?
- Thread starter Steven Avery
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Steven Avery
Administrator
why the inconsistent colouring of the London 1859 Sinaiticus leaves?
https://forums.carm.org/threads/why...g-of-the-london-1859-sinaiticus-leaves.21890/
Tischendorf notes the inconsistency between 1859 leaves.
(There is also inconsistency within the individual leaves,)
This is never stated for the 1844 leaves.
TNC accepted this Tischendorf description as true. And it can be seen on the Codex Sinaiticus Project of 2009.
And then TNC theorized that this description actually triggered the intense and repeated 1862-1863 accusations of colouring and staining by Simonides and Kallinikos. Highly unlikely, but not the main point of this thread.
What caused the inconsistent colouring?
If it was not caused by the artificial colouring, what was the cause?
Are there other unstained manuscripts where the parchment is given this description?
And would the description fit well for other manuscripts known, or highly suspected, to be stained in order to help the manuscript appear old, “yellow with age”?
There are examples in various spots, including the Simonides “tobacco water” manuscripts.
Your thoughts?
Thanks
https://forums.carm.org/threads/why...g-of-the-london-1859-sinaiticus-leaves.21890/
Tischendorf notes the inconsistency between 1859 leaves.
(There is also inconsistency within the individual leaves,)
This is never stated for the 1844 leaves.
TNC accepted this Tischendorf description as true. And it can be seen on the Codex Sinaiticus Project of 2009.
And then TNC theorized that this description actually triggered the intense and repeated 1862-1863 accusations of colouring and staining by Simonides and Kallinikos. Highly unlikely, but not the main point of this thread.
What caused the inconsistent colouring?
If it was not caused by the artificial colouring, what was the cause?
Are there other unstained manuscripts where the parchment is given this description?
And would the description fit well for other manuscripts known, or highly suspected, to be stained in order to help the manuscript appear old, “yellow with age”?
There are examples in various spots, including the Simonides “tobacco water” manuscripts.
Your thoughts?
Thanks
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Steven Avery
Administrator
These are the spots that have the quote, whether used for inconsistent or yellow.
PBF
why the inconsistent colouring of the London 1859 Sinaiticus leaves?
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...ondon-1859-sinaiticus-leaves.4813/#post-20350
pallida and sufflava not alba
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/pallida-and-sufflava-not-alba.3608/
white parchment - A Tale of Two Manuscripts
https://purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/white-parchment.82/
Tischendorf acknowledges that 1859 pages have varied colouring (which is due to staining) "individual leaves are quite different from one another"
https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...es-are-quite-different-from-one-another.3664/
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CARM
why the inconsistent colouring of the London 1859 Sinaiticus leaves?
https://forums.carm.org/threads/why...g-of-the-london-1859-sinaiticus-leaves.21890/
TNC notices - Dec 2023
https://forums.carm.org/threads/cod...simonides-timeline.13239/page-16#post-1397860
https://forums.carm.org/threads/codex-sinaiticus-and-constantine-simonides-timeline.13239/page-17
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Facebook post
Textus Receptus Assembly
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1485460165633174/
text on
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BCHF
Codex Sinaiticus - the white parchment Friderico-Augustanus
https://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1017&start=60
non-invasive testing of inks, parchment, stains and threads
PBF
why the inconsistent colouring of the London 1859 Sinaiticus leaves?
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...ondon-1859-sinaiticus-leaves.4813/#post-20350
pallida and sufflava not alba
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/pallida-and-sufflava-not-alba.3608/
white parchment - A Tale of Two Manuscripts
https://purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/white-parchment.82/
Tischendorf acknowledges that 1859 pages have varied colouring (which is due to staining) "individual leaves are quite different from one another"
https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...es-are-quite-different-from-one-another.3664/
=====================================
CARM
why the inconsistent colouring of the London 1859 Sinaiticus leaves?
https://forums.carm.org/threads/why...g-of-the-london-1859-sinaiticus-leaves.21890/
TNC notices - Dec 2023
https://forums.carm.org/threads/cod...simonides-timeline.13239/page-16#post-1397860
https://forums.carm.org/threads/codex-sinaiticus-and-constantine-simonides-timeline.13239/page-17
=====================================
Facebook post
Textus Receptus Assembly
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1485460165633174/
text on
Tischendorf acknowledges that 1859 pages have varied colouring (which is due to staining) "individual leaves are quite different from one another"
Notitia editionis codicis bibliorum sinaitici: Auspiciis imp. Alexandri II. susceptae. Accedit catalogus cod. nuper ex oriente Petropolin perlatorum item Origenes Scholia in Proverbia Salomonis (1860) By Konstantin von Tischendorf https://books.google.com/books?id=DpI4EOWye7MC&pg=RA2-PA5 Page...
purebibleforum.com
=====================================
BCHF
Codex Sinaiticus - the white parchment Friderico-Augustanus
https://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1017&start=60
non-invasive testing of inks, parchment, stains and threads
Last edited:
Steven Avery
Administrator
This quote also applies sufflava (yellow) to the 1859 leaves, which is never used for the 1844 leaves.
Steven Avery
Administrator
Tischendorf
1860 1863 1865
Joseph Danko
1867
https://books.google.com/books?id=GsJcDJEeCVIC&pg=PA118
Notitia editionis codicis bibliorum sinaitici: Auspiciis imp. Alexandri II. susceptae. Accedit catalogus cod. nuper ex oriente Petropolin perlatorum item Origenes Scholia in Proverbia Salomonis (1860)
by Konstantin von Tischendorf
https://books.google.com/books?id=DpI4EOWye7MC&pg=RA2-PA5
1860 1863 1865
Joseph Danko
1867
https://books.google.com/books?id=GsJcDJEeCVIC&pg=PA118
Notitia editionis codicis bibliorum sinaitici: Auspiciis imp. Alexandri II. susceptae. Accedit catalogus cod. nuper ex oriente Petropolin perlatorum item Origenes Scholia in Proverbia Salomonis (1860)
by Konstantin von Tischendorf
https://books.google.com/books?id=DpI4EOWye7MC&pg=RA2-PA5
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Steven Avery
Administrator
https://www.google.com/search?q="ma...BIF8&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
https://www.google.com/search?q="ma...gaSBwQxMC4yoAfHLw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
========
Facebook - Grantley McDonald
SINAITICUS COLOURING AND STAINING OF THE 1859 PAGES One of the key elements of ...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1485460165633174/
BVDB
www.tapatalk.com
The stains that are on the British Library pages, as well as the uneven colouring within the British Library pages, are obvious to anyone who goes through the Codex Sinaiticus Project pages online.
Those anomalies may have been removed from the Hendricksen book. Much as they smoothed out the colouring of the whitish Leipzig pages to match those in the darker British Library pages. My sense is that the scholars have mostly used the smoothed out book.
The number of scholars who have seen the manuscript in any manner other than an occasional exhibit at one library remains very small.
You would have to ask specific scholars why they do not go through the online pages and comment. Or seek to view the pages at the libraries using whatever scholarship authority they can muster.
The few scholars who had more access involving the CSP were generally involved with the British Library attempt to create buzz, and were not looking to find palaeographic and publishing and manuscript anomalies that might question authenticity. You can also see that in all the vague question marks you see in the CSP writings.
BCHF
The definite answers are not difficult to come by, they simply require using a wide variety of historical and manuscript information. A respect for the historical forensics is helpful. As an example, the huge colour anomaly between Leipzig pristine white parchment and the British Library's uneven colouring received no notice whatsoever until we pointed it out. (Both manuscripts beingin "phenomenally good condition". The British Library, to their credit, acknowledged the situation, in correspondence. These types of elements are discussed up thread. When you add in the fact that this colouring was pointed out by Kallinikos in Sinai (and was not available in any way from the Tischendorf writing) you have one of many evidences that are probative to an 1800s production.
Carm
https://www.google.com/search?q="ma...gaSBwQxMC4yoAfHLw&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
========
Facebook - Grantley McDonald
SINAITICUS COLOURING AND STAINING OF THE 1859 PAGES One of the key elements of ...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1485460165633174/
BVDB
Bible Versions Disc Board-How and Why Did Simonides Copy the Alexandrian Reading into Sinaiticus at Matthew 27:49?
Bible Versions Disc Board
www.tapatalk.com
Those anomalies may have been removed from the Hendricksen book. Much as they smoothed out the colouring of the whitish Leipzig pages to match those in the darker British Library pages. My sense is that the scholars have mostly used the smoothed out book.
The number of scholars who have seen the manuscript in any manner other than an occasional exhibit at one library remains very small.
You would have to ask specific scholars why they do not go through the online pages and comment. Or seek to view the pages at the libraries using whatever scholarship authority they can muster.
The few scholars who had more access involving the CSP were generally involved with the British Library attempt to create buzz, and were not looking to find palaeographic and publishing and manuscript anomalies that might question authenticity. You can also see that in all the vague question marks you see in the CSP writings.
BCHF
The definite answers are not difficult to come by, they simply require using a wide variety of historical and manuscript information. A respect for the historical forensics is helpful. As an example, the huge colour anomaly between Leipzig pristine white parchment and the British Library's uneven colouring received no notice whatsoever until we pointed it out. (Both manuscripts beingin "phenomenally good condition". The British Library, to their credit, acknowledged the situation, in correspondence. These types of elements are discussed up thread. When you add in the fact that this colouring was pointed out by Kallinikos in Sinai (and was not available in any way from the Tischendorf writing) you have one of many evidences that are probative to an 1800s production.
Carm
Codex Sinaiticus and Constantine Simonides timeline
Ο Καποδίστριας είπε, «ουδένα εύρον εν Ελλάδι μέχρι της ημέρας ταύτης παιδείαν έχοντα αληθή, πλην του γηραιού Βενέδικτου του Συμαίου, ώ μάλιστα και την άρτι συσταθείσαν εν Πόρω δογματικήν σχολήν ενεπιστευσάμιν». Kapodistrias said, "no one in Greece until this day had a true education, except for...
forums.carm.org
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Steven Avery
Administrator
Color In Medieval Manuscripts-Black & White
Medieval manuscripts are prized for their extravagant colors and rich opaque glory. What did the European illuminators use to produce intensity like that? A variety of different things. Black-The m…
possets.wordpress.com
November 16, 2011 by possets
https://human.libretexts.org/Courses/Prince_George's_Community_College/Introduction_to_Art__Art_History_Part_2/06%3A_Medieval_Europe_and_Byzantine/6.04%3A_Books_in_Medieval_Europe
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