Acts 14:23 - And when they had ordained them elders in every church (Geneva-election)

Steven Avery

Administrator
From the 7 pages

Matthew Poole on Acts 14:23



Hi Folks,


Quote:


Originally Posted by Coverdale

In his commentary, Matthew Poole (1624-1679) wrote that "the word properly signifies a stretching out of the hand, such as was used when they gave their suffrages in the election of their magistrates" (III, p. 432).
Is that all that Matthew Poole said about the meaning of Acts 14:23 in his annotations ?

Acts 14:23 (KJB)
And when they had ordained them elders in every church,
and had prayed with fasting,
they commended them to the Lord,
on whom they believed.

Is your citation a complete and honest representation to those reading here ?

Let us start with the integrity of the Rick Norris quotation approach, to see if anything he writes can be relied upon. (Check camphire for another recent example on this forum.)

Remember, Rick is disagreeing with even most seminary Greek scholarship today, claiming an inaccuracy in the King James Bible in this verse. We will bring over the unanswered questions for Rick from here after we look at his citation methodology.

http://www.fundamentalforums.com/1502279-post47.html
(Acts 14:23 post on New Versions -- can they ever go too far? )

Rick, who is the modern Greek scholar who you feel most represents your technical Greek accusation ? That any Bible that does not have suffrage, an election by voting, in Acts 14:23 is in error, inaccurate.

Shalom,
Steven Avery
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
Bilson - with all Greek councils, fathers and stories



Hi Folks,


Quote:


Originally Posted by Coverdale

Thomas Bilson, co-editor of the KJV, asserted that the Greek word at Acts 14:23 signifieth “imposition of hands” and “not to ordain by election of the people, as some men of late had new framed the text” (Perpetual Government of Christ‘s Church, p. 13). Bilson maintained that the Greek word “with all Greek councils, fathers, and stories, is ’to ordain by laying on of hands‘” (p. 120).
Note: It will be nice to return to the excellent, even masterful, exposition and exegesis, focusing on 'laying on of hands' in the Thomas Bilson book.

This is in three sections, one on p. 13, another on p. 120 and the third going from p. 137-142. Feel free to read excellent Bible scholarship, and I hope to post some extracts shortly.

The perpetual government of Christ's Church (1842 edition 1st edition 1593, this is a reprint of the 1610 2nd edition)
http://www.archive.org/details/perpe...ernm00bilsuoft
In this book he (Thomas Bilson) has established his claim to be considered one of the most learned divines of his own or any period... The estimation in which bishop Bilson was held in his day, (if any proof were needed beyond the recital already made of the several steps of his career,) may be known from his having been appointed, with Dr. Miles Smith, bishop of Gloucester, to add the last hand in the translation of the Bible, commanded by king James the Firsts At length, after he had gone through many employments (Biographical Notice .. Robert Eden page IX)

Let us point two things now.


Quote:


Originally Posted by Coverdale

Bilson quoted from Acts 14:23: “ordained elders in every church,” omitting the words “by election“ in the pre-1611 English Bibles (p. 188).
Quite obviously and properly
smile.gif
. In the sections Thomas Bilson explains in depth specifically the error in the earlier English Bibles. He translated directly from the Greek to English in harmony with his understanding of the Greek word.

Here is the neat issue for now.


Quote:


Originally Posted by Coverdale

Thomas Bilson, co-editor of the KJV, asserted that the Greek word at Acts 14:23 signifieth “imposition of hands” and “not to ordain by election of the people, as some men of late had new framed the text” (Perpetual Government of Christ‘s Church, p. 13). Bilson maintained that the Greek word “with all Greek councils, fathers, and stories, is ’to ordain by laying on of hands‘” (p. 120).
Bilson actually references this three distinct times.

First, note how this fits perfectly with Jerome and Chrysostom above.

And notice how not one quote offered any disagreement or counterpoint ! There was no issue and controversy at all with the Greek word and understanding until the 1500s.

Here is a bit more. Note how Bilson properly rips the pre-1611 Bibles on their translation of this word.

For the signification and etymology of the word (ceirotonhsante ) this may suffice; by which it is evident, no proof can be made from the fact of Paul and Barnabas, in Acts xiv., that the people or presbytery concurred with them in the election of elders, or imposition of hands ; yea, rather, since (ceirotonhsante ) with all Greek councils, fathers, and stories, is " to ordain by laying on of hands," both the general use of the word amongst all Greek divines, and the coherence of the text do enforce, that Paul and Barnabas, without assistance or consent of others (for any thing that is expressed), imposed hands on meet pastors in every place and church that was destitute. And this translation of the word hath far better warrant than that which is lately crept into some English Bibles, "they ordained elders by election." (p. 110)

Thomas Bilson made it very clear why he parted from the earlier English Bibles.

And one of the sections on these concepts and the Greek understandings into English is over five pages long, and very well written.

Shalom,
Steven Avery
 
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