Steven Avery
Administrator
Acts 5:30 (AV)
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus,
whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus,
whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
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Acts 5:30 - The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
- Thread starter Steven Avery
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Steven Avery
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Kirk DiVietro
What preposition would you like?
The simple translation of the participle in its tense and mode is "him whom you have hung" (aor act plural nom masc) I don't think that the implication is "by hanging". it is a reference to the Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God
that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. What makes it even worse is that you hanged him on a tree!
To me the grammar does not indicate death by hanging but death adding the curse of hanging on a tree.
What preposition would you like?
The simple translation of the participle in its tense and mode is "him whom you have hung" (aor act plural nom masc) I don't think that the implication is "by hanging". it is a reference to the Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God
that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. What makes it even worse is that you hanged him on a tree!To me the grammar does not indicate death by hanging but death adding the curse of hanging on a tree.
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Steven Avery
Administrator
Jeffrey Riddle
Academia.edu
https://www.academia.edu/125360330/...No_499_October_December_2024_22_28_PDF_Draft_
Blog
http://www.jeffriddle.net/2024/11/article-does-king-james-version-wrongly.html
Sermon Audio
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/crbchurch/sermons/5623175142964/
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su685hb2-1E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAA_602v6Qk
Academia.edu
According to White the problem is found in the final phrase in the Greek original and
especially the proper translation of the participle (bold added): ον υμεις διεχειρισασθε
κρεμασαντες επι ξυλου [hon humeis diercheirisasthe kremantes epi xulou].
Grammatically speaking, this phrase consists of a main finite verb, διεχειρισασθε
[diercheirisasthe], followed by an adverbial participle, κρεμασαντες [kremantes]. On one
hand, the KJV renders this final phrase in English with two finite verbs having the same
subject (“ye”) connected by the conjunction “and” (participle in bold): “whom ye slew and
hanged on a tree.” The LSB, on the other hand, translates the final phrase with a finite verb
and a participle expressing means or instrument, adding the word “by” (participle in bold):
“whom you put to death by hanging Him on a tree.”
...
More Light From Acts 2:23
More light can also be shed on the translation of Acts 5:30 by comparing the translation of
Acts 2:23. In Acts 2:23, in his Pentecost sermon, Peter declared, “Him, being delivered by the
determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have
crucified and slain” (Acts 2:23 KJV bold added). The final phrase here is another example of
a Greek construction that involves an adverbial participle and a main finite verb, “ye… have
crucified and slain (προσπηξαντες ανειλετε [prospēxantes aneilete]),” though, in this case,
the participle precedes the verb. It consists of an aorist particle προσπηξαντες
[prospēxantes] from the verb meaning “to fasten to” (which refers to Christ being fastened
or nailed to the cross), and the main finite verb ανειλετε [aneilete], a second aorist verb in
the second person plural meaning, “ye slew.” As in Acts 5:30, the KJV of Acts 2:23 translates
the adverbial participle circumstantially as a finite verb (“crucified”) with the conjunction
“and” and the finite verb (“slain”): “ye… have crucified and slain.”
....
Conclusion
This brief examination has demonstrated that any claim that the KJV translation of Acts 5:30
“misses” a proper rendering or is somehow grammatically inaccurate is completely false.
The KJV translation of Acts 5:30, in fact, reflects the classic Protestant English Bible
Translation Tradition. According to contemporary experts in the syntax of New Testament
Greek, like Brooks and Winbery, its translation of the adverbal participle as circumstantial is
perfectly appropriate. ...
Academia.edu
https://www.academia.edu/125360330/...No_499_October_December_2024_22_28_PDF_Draft_
Blog
http://www.jeffriddle.net/2024/11/article-does-king-james-version-wrongly.html
Sermon Audio
https://www.sermonaudio.com/solo/crbchurch/sermons/5623175142964/
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su685hb2-1E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAA_602v6Qk
Academia.edu
According to White the problem is found in the final phrase in the Greek original and
especially the proper translation of the participle (bold added): ον υμεις διεχειρισασθε
κρεμασαντες επι ξυλου [hon humeis diercheirisasthe kremantes epi xulou].
Grammatically speaking, this phrase consists of a main finite verb, διεχειρισασθε
[diercheirisasthe], followed by an adverbial participle, κρεμασαντες [kremantes]. On one
hand, the KJV renders this final phrase in English with two finite verbs having the same
subject (“ye”) connected by the conjunction “and” (participle in bold): “whom ye slew and
hanged on a tree.” The LSB, on the other hand, translates the final phrase with a finite verb
and a participle expressing means or instrument, adding the word “by” (participle in bold):
“whom you put to death by hanging Him on a tree.”
...
More Light From Acts 2:23
More light can also be shed on the translation of Acts 5:30 by comparing the translation of
Acts 2:23. In Acts 2:23, in his Pentecost sermon, Peter declared, “Him, being delivered by the
determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have
crucified and slain” (Acts 2:23 KJV bold added). The final phrase here is another example of
a Greek construction that involves an adverbial participle and a main finite verb, “ye… have
crucified and slain (προσπηξαντες ανειλετε [prospēxantes aneilete]),” though, in this case,
the participle precedes the verb. It consists of an aorist particle προσπηξαντες
[prospēxantes] from the verb meaning “to fasten to” (which refers to Christ being fastened
or nailed to the cross), and the main finite verb ανειλετε [aneilete], a second aorist verb in
the second person plural meaning, “ye slew.” As in Acts 5:30, the KJV of Acts 2:23 translates
the adverbial participle circumstantially as a finite verb (“crucified”) with the conjunction
“and” and the finite verb (“slain”): “ye… have crucified and slain.”
....
Conclusion
This brief examination has demonstrated that any claim that the KJV translation of Acts 5:30
“misses” a proper rendering or is somehow grammatically inaccurate is completely false.
The KJV translation of Acts 5:30, in fact, reflects the classic Protestant English Bible
Translation Tradition. According to contemporary experts in the syntax of New Testament
Greek, like Brooks and Winbery, its translation of the adverbal participle as circumstantial is
perfectly appropriate. ...
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Steven Avery
Administrator
Facebook - TRA - 2024
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1539461410233049/
Alexander Thomson - your comment on the Textus Receptus forum back in 2024 was far more astute:
“The problem (if there is one - but, hardly!) is not to be resolved merely from Greek grammar. Will Kinney has already supplied the clue! "Matthew Poole’s Annotations - “Hanged on a tree; a tree, or wood, which is rather mentioned than a cross, that the allusion to Deuteronomy 21:23 might be more full, where he that is hanged on a tree is accursed; AND in that Christ was made a curse for us, Galatians 3:13." In other words, Acts is deliberately quoting, and preserving the order of, Deuteronomy! Prophecy was being fulfilled; and the Jews would have understood that Deuteronomy was being quoted, and would not have quibbled - as they did not quibble! - about the supposed "wrong order" of things! There's more to Bible understanding than (the very necessary) knowledge of grammar!”
==========================================
Facebook - TRA - 2025
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/permalink/1423770061802185/?fs=e&s=cl
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1539461410233049/
Alexander Thomson - your comment on the Textus Receptus forum back in 2024 was far more astute:
“The problem (if there is one - but, hardly!) is not to be resolved merely from Greek grammar. Will Kinney has already supplied the clue! "Matthew Poole’s Annotations - “Hanged on a tree; a tree, or wood, which is rather mentioned than a cross, that the allusion to Deuteronomy 21:23 might be more full, where he that is hanged on a tree is accursed; AND in that Christ was made a curse for us, Galatians 3:13." In other words, Acts is deliberately quoting, and preserving the order of, Deuteronomy! Prophecy was being fulfilled; and the Jews would have understood that Deuteronomy was being quoted, and would not have quibbled - as they did not quibble! - about the supposed "wrong order" of things! There's more to Bible understanding than (the very necessary) knowledge of grammar!”
==========================================
Facebook - TRA - 2025
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/permalink/1423770061802185/?fs=e&s=cl
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Steven Avery
Administrator
Acts 2:23
“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”
“Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”
Steven Avery
Administrator
Geneva
http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=e...en&oq=Acts%205:30&new=1&sr=1&nb=ac&ng=5&ncc=5
Riddle
The Classic Protestant English Bible Translation Tradition of Acts 5:30
To examine the validity of White’s charge, we begin by noting that the translation of Acts
5:30 in the KJV is not an innovation unique to it, but that it follows what might be called “The
Classic Protestant English Bible Translation Tradition” of this verse. In other words, the KJV
translators were simply following the translation tradition that had been established in
previous English Protestant Bibles, stretching back to Tyndale. Here are a few examples
(bold added):
Tyndale NT (1534; from the Daniell modern spelling ed.): The God of our fathers
raised up Jesus whom ye slew and hanged on [a] tree.
Geneva (1560/1599; from the Tolle Lege ed.): The God of our fathers hath raised up
Jesus whom ye slew, and hanged on a tree.
Bishops’ Bible (1568; accessed from textusreceptusbibles.com): The God of our
fathers raysed vp Iesus, whom ye slewe, & hanged on [a] tree.
KJV (1611): The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a
tree.
==================
Coverdale
The God of oure fathers hath raysed vp Iesus, who ye slewe, and hanged on tre.
www.studylight.org
http://www.studylight.org/desk/?l=e...en&oq=Acts%205:30&new=1&sr=1&nb=ac&ng=5&ncc=5
Riddle
The Classic Protestant English Bible Translation Tradition of Acts 5:30
To examine the validity of White’s charge, we begin by noting that the translation of Acts
5:30 in the KJV is not an innovation unique to it, but that it follows what might be called “The
Classic Protestant English Bible Translation Tradition” of this verse. In other words, the KJV
translators were simply following the translation tradition that had been established in
previous English Protestant Bibles, stretching back to Tyndale. Here are a few examples
(bold added):
Tyndale NT (1534; from the Daniell modern spelling ed.): The God of our fathers
raised up Jesus whom ye slew and hanged on [a] tree.
Geneva (1560/1599; from the Tolle Lege ed.): The God of our fathers hath raised up
Jesus whom ye slew, and hanged on a tree.
Bishops’ Bible (1568; accessed from textusreceptusbibles.com): The God of our
fathers raysed vp Iesus, whom ye slewe, & hanged on [a] tree.
KJV (1611): The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a
tree.
==================
Coverdale
The God of oure fathers hath raysed vp Iesus, who ye slewe, and hanged on tre.
General Search for 'Acts 5:30' - Miles Coverdale Bible (1535) - StudyLight.org
General Search for 'Acts 5:30' within 'Miles Coverdale Bible (1535)' on StudyLight.org
www.studylight.org
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Steven Avery
Administrator
ADD more material (Gill, Kinney et al)
Then Summarize Reasons for AV superiority of modern corruption versions.
Then Summarize Reasons for AV superiority of modern corruption versions.
Steven Avery
Administrator
Marty Shue - 2001
Slew and Hanged on a Tree
Acts 5:30
By Martin A. Shue
https://www.geocities.ws/avdefense1611/acts5-30.html
Slew and Hanged on a Tree
Acts 5:30
By Martin A. Shue
https://www.geocities.ws/avdefense1611/acts5-30.html
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Steven Avery
Administrator
Mentioned in the Academia.edu paper
On Twitter, Timothy Decker tries to bail out James White, and discusses with Jeffrey Riddle
TD
I might even say that the KJV missed the use of the circumstantial participle subsequent to the verb. Read Runge on this!
JTR
Aside from conflation, I think the fundamental problem with your observation is its assumption that anyone who does not think the LSB translation of this verse is objectively superior must reach this conclusion only because of his investment in the KJV.
TD
No, I believe you to be doing that, brother. You can't even bring yourself to admit that the KJV et al are not as accurate at Acts 5:30. This has nothing to do w/ the TR. My point is pretty obvious: for a TRo, you seem to be so unbending on the KJV/Gen/Tyn that TRo is a mislabel.
JTR
Sorry, I'm not convinced that the Tyndale translation is "not as accurate" as the LSB. There's only one of us making any dogmatic claims about only one translation option being acceptable here.
TD
You mean only 1 of us is willing to make a dogmatic claim for a superior translation. Represent me accurately, brother. And your "unwillingness" reads more like a "Ancient Protestant Translation" only advocate more and more. This is, I believe, what @mlward was getting at.
====================
Jeffrey T. Riddle
@Riddle1689
·
Apr 3, 2023
Interesting. You're taking a pretty dogmatic position on the translation of this verse. Sort of like Modern-translation-onlyism. When I reviewed the White-Ross debate I suggested either translation would work, in light of the Authoritas Divina Duplex principle.
On Twitter, Timothy Decker tries to bail out James White, and discusses with Jeffrey Riddle
TD
I might even say that the KJV missed the use of the circumstantial participle subsequent to the verb. Read Runge on this!
JTR
Aside from conflation, I think the fundamental problem with your observation is its assumption that anyone who does not think the LSB translation of this verse is objectively superior must reach this conclusion only because of his investment in the KJV.
TD
No, I believe you to be doing that, brother. You can't even bring yourself to admit that the KJV et al are not as accurate at Acts 5:30. This has nothing to do w/ the TR. My point is pretty obvious: for a TRo, you seem to be so unbending on the KJV/Gen/Tyn that TRo is a mislabel.
JTR
Sorry, I'm not convinced that the Tyndale translation is "not as accurate" as the LSB. There's only one of us making any dogmatic claims about only one translation option being acceptable here.
TD
You mean only 1 of us is willing to make a dogmatic claim for a superior translation. Represent me accurately, brother. And your "unwillingness" reads more like a "Ancient Protestant Translation" only advocate more and more. This is, I believe, what @mlward was getting at.
====================
Jeffrey T. Riddle
@Riddle1689
·
Apr 3, 2023
Interesting. You're taking a pretty dogmatic position on the translation of this verse. Sort of like Modern-translation-onlyism. When I reviewed the White-Ross debate I suggested either translation would work, in light of the Authoritas Divina Duplex principle.
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