Asahel Adams ignorantly attacks the heavenly witnesses verse at the 2022 Exodus Conference

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
This is the starting point 52:20
https://youtu.be/vVdZY9Hi3YY?t=3140

Asahel Adams
Johannine Comma - Erasmus Wager - Johannine Comma

Howard Wheeler
Well, it is in there (maybe he means the Trinity)

Asahel
Here is what I will say. While the Majority Text is an authoritative text. Go look in your Bible, your New King James, and it will have a note, at least in my Nelson that says, 1 John 5:7 it will say "this phrasing does not appear in any manuscript prior to the 1500s." I got news for you. I'm not interested in anything added after the 1500s. But those that include it, declare that to me about it, that's all I need to know. And I don't necessarily need to speculate about how Erasmus decided to put it in there on a barroom wager and all of that. There is a story about it, and that story did not originate with those people who disagree with the doctrine, that originated with people of the same theology as Erasmus.

Howard
And I guarantee you, if that had of been in the Bible, Origen would have quoted it, Gregory of Nyssa would have quoted it, Clement of Alexandria would have quoted it, they would have grabbed hold of that with an iron grip, and you know, Augustine's ... said that the Trinity is a very dangerous doctrine. He said, if you don't believe it you will lose your soul, and if you try to understand it, you will lose your mind.
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
The NKJV note says
"NU, M omit the words from in heaven (v. 7) through on earth (v. 8). Only 4 or 5 very late mss. contain these words in Greek."
https://books.google.com/books?id=CS6CBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA1297
1650385623129.png
Very deceptive with the evidences, but at least the mss. is qualified to Greek
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Evidences before the 1500s are wide and deep.

Cyprian - 250 AD

Potamius (four references in two letters, one to Athanasius) - earlier I had four letters, now corrected.

Jerome - c. 400 AD Vulgate Prologue explains tendency to drop the verse

Council of Carthage - 484 AD - hundreds of orthodox bishops affirm the verse

Disputation of Athanasius to an Arian at Nicea (Greek)

solecism in short Greek text

And tons more.
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Jan 7, 2023 - weekly broadcast
asahel

transactional - transjetive
47 - baloney
49 - good luck

waves particles -light -

54:50 - I am oyvey

56:20

sidewitz neurological

stopprd listening at 1:01
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Asi sends me an absurd document to try to justify his blunders.

================================

May 16, 2924

Hi dear Asi,

By now, you should be able to get your facts straight about 1 John 5:7.

1 John 5:7 (AV)
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.

You and Howard are quite an embarrassment spouting lies and confusion in order to attack the pure Scriptures.

Truth has fallen (at Homestead.)

Steven

================================

Dear Steven,
Please see attached.
Best wishes

================================
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Document

Arguing Against the Inclusion of the Johannine Comma in 1 John 5:7 5/16/24, 10:55PM

Arguing Against the Inclusion of the Johannine Comma in 1 John 5:7

The Johannine Comma, referring to the phrase "three that bear witness in
heaven," lacks historical evidence in any biblical texts prior to the 1500s. This
addition is absent from any ancient manuscripts, including the 25,000 partial
textual fragments of the Majority Text (Textus Receptus) and the Alexandrian texts
that form the basis of the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece. The earliest
known instance of the Comma is found in the Codex Montfortianus, dated to the
early 16th century.

Textual scholars, such as Bruce Metzger in his seminal work A Textual
Commentary on the Greek New Testament, have pointed out that the Comma
appears in only a handful of late medieval Greek manuscripts. Specifically, it is
present in four very late Greek manuscripts, and its inclusion in the Latin Vulgate is
traced back to the 8th century, likely as a marginal gloss that later entered the
text.

The absence of the Johannine Comma in early Greek manuscripts is corroborated
by the silence of the early Church Fathers. These theologians, who vigorously
debated the nature of the Godhead during the third and fourth centuries, made no
reference to this text. If the Comma had existed in their time, it would have
undoubtedly been cited in trinitarian debates. The Cappadocians, including Basil
the Great, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus, never mentioned this
passage, further confirming its later addition.

Bibles that include the Johannine Comma, such as the King James Version, often
provide footnotes explaining its absence in the earliest manuscripts. The New
International Version, for example, includes a note stating, "Late manuscripts of
the Vulgate add the words found in the KJV. They are not found in any Greek
manuscript before the sixteenth century." The new King James makes this
admission in its footnote regarding the passage: “Only four or five very late
manuscripts contain these words in Greek." The RSV admits in its footnote that
this aberration is not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century
and only appears in a handful of very late manuscripts.

Truth will only fall in Homestead if we begin to adopt novel additions to scripture,
added at the time of the reformation instead of by the apostles of the Lord Jesus.
In summary, the historical and textual evidence overwhelmingly indicates that the
Johannine Comma is a later addition, not part of the original text of 1 John.
Adopting such novel additions to Scripture, which emerged during the time of the

Page 2 of 2
Arguing Against the Inclusion of the Johannine Comma in 1 John 5:7 5/16/24, 10:55PM

Reformation, undermines the authenticity and integrity of the biblical text as
delivered by the apostles and preserved through the early centuries of the church.

References:

1. Bruce M. Metzger, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, 2nd
Edition, United Bible Societies, 1994.

2. Kurt Aland, Barbara Aland, The Text of the New Testament: An Introduction to
the Critical Editions and to the Theory and Practice of Modern Textual
Criticism, Eerdmans, 1995.

3. Raymond E. Brown, The Epistles of John, The Anchor Yale Bible
Commentaries, Yale University Press, 1982.

4. F.F. Bruce, The Canon of Scripture, InterVarsity Press, 1988.
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Hi Asi,

Let’s take one point:

“25,000 partial textual fragmentS”

25,000 is the number of manuscripts in all languages. About 5,000 are in Greek, estimate 10,000 in Latin, and the rest divided between Syriac, Coptic, Armenian etc.

Under 2,000 will have 1 John 5.
So that is the key number.

Estimates
500 in Greek
800 in Latin

95% of the Latin manuscripts have the verse, including Old Latin (Vetus Latina) manuscripts from the 5th century on. This line is from the 2nd century, representing the pre-Vulgate text.

Early church writer usage is in the 3rd century, notably by Cyprian, there are over 5 clear usages of the verse in the 4th century, then Jerome;s Vulgate Prologue and 400 bishops specifically affirming the verses at the Council of Carthage, a dispute with “Arians” under Huneric AD 484.

Erasmus was aware of the strong verse usage, the Vulgate Prologue of Jerome he found very discomfiting to his position. Erasmus was also aware of the solecism in the Greek short text without the heavenly witnesses.

And much more can be shared, does Homestead care about Bible text truth?

=======

Conclusion for Asi, as spokesman:

You have been duped, but if you want to attack the verse, please, speak with actual facts.

(Note: I corrected Joel on this weak “scholarship” long ago.)

Does Homestead Heritage any longer have any interest in factual truth?

The heavenly witnesses is precious Bible truth.

1 John 5:7 (AV)
For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.

Steven
 
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