baptism as a “pledge of the old nature” - Jesus is come “in our human nature”

[Steven Avery]

"We believe in believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus as well as into the lordship of Jesus and that therefore takes place in the name of Jesus."

What We Believe
http://www.homesteadheritage.com/beliefs/

A totally unChristian, even anti-Christian doctrine, one that is unique to Homestead Heritage. Recently added, as there was nothing even remotely of this nature in the 1970s into the 1980s.

How could any real Christian talk about pledging the old nature? And this is not an offhand slip, it is in a carefully written statement of faith. The moorings of Homestead Heritage were totally shaken by their Bible confusions and yahwehism.

Added Feb, 2019:

They do not mention that Yahshua, a terrible mangling connected to the devil entity Yahweh, has been added into the water baptism, either along with Jesus or in place of Jesus.

Note also how there is no mention of remission of sins.

 

[Steven Avery]

the old nature has no value to be given as a pledge

A bit more from August 24, 2016:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/waco-tx/T58JCMP5PC5AGLDDN/p376

"—We believe in believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus as well as into the lordship of Jesus and that therefore takes place in the name of Jesus. Moreover, this pledge is therefore one of submission to a discipleship that leads us in love into an increasing sacrifice of our lapsed nature according to our pledge through baptism into Christ’s own sacrificial death ..."

This is a fellowship that edits and proofs and re-edits and re-proofs, and this is their one public statement of faith. A typo? Unlikely.

Note that this "pledge" and "nature" component continues from:

"pledge of the old nature"

to .. "an increasing sacrifice of our lapsed nature"

And if it is a typo, they could correct it tomorrow, it has been up on the site at least 9 months. And I see the section not as having a typo, but as demonstrating doctrinal and scriptural difficulties.

Now, very simply, if it is not a typo, does this make any sense, scripturally and spiritually?

"... believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus as well as into the lordship of Jesus...."

==========

Later, we may go into how Homestead Heritage has sort of incorporated the Anabaptist idea, e.g. of Balthasar Hubmaier,(c. 1480- 1528) of water baptism as a pledge and confession, unto God and the community of faith.

One positive element of this was begun in Colorado when a spoken testimony of faith by the believer, similar to Acts 8:37, was made a necessary component of being accepted for water baptism.

==========

Here is an interesting question about the section.

Did you notice the total absence of any reference to remission of sins in water baptism?

The quality of the research and scholarship varies wildly. It is certainly puzzling why they would put a "pledge of the old nature" on their current public SOF on the net, that does indicate a very fundamental difficulty in dealing with Christian doctrine. Even after (or partly because of?) adding a Baylor seminarian or two. Yet, how could even a seminarian come up with that doctrinal absurdity?

A bit more from July 25, 2017:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/waco-tx/T58JCMP5PC5AGLDDN/p439

we can use the laughable absurdity of a "pledge of the old nature" in water baptism as a convenient example of how far astray they have gone.... the absurd and indefensible concept (and spiritually sick, to be frank and clear) that water baptism involves a "pledge of the old nature". Ugh. What a doctrinal abomination, and blared out right on their public statement of faith. It helps to show that the doctrinal emperor is sans clothes.

...

Returning to the Homestead Heritage absurdity:

"...pledge of the old nature..."

This is expressed publicly, as a carefully formulated belief, approved by the full ministry, in:

Homestead Heritage - What We Believe
http://www.homesteadheritage.com/beliefs/

Wait! The old nature does not have any value to be given as a pledge. A pledge is something of value given as security, something that you hope not to lose.

"a thing that is given as security for the fulfillment of a contract or the payment of a debt and is liable to forfeiture in the event of failure."
https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+pledge&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

... reading from Romans 6 today in some devotional time. From the pure scriptures, the Authorized Version. Compare the pure word of God, the Holy Bible, with the absurdity put forth as Homestead Heritage doctrine.

Romans 6:1-6 (AV)
What shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid.
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death,
we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For true Christians, that body of sin, the old nature, is to be destroyed. Far away as the east is to the west. It is not to be offered up as a pledge, a thing of value.

And I believe that God allowed this Homestead Heritage doctrinal blunder in order to make it simpler for anyone, even outside of apostolic doctrine and authority questions and name of Jesus issues, to understand how far astray Homestead Heritage has gone. How they have left Christian faith. This nonsense of making a "pledge of the old nature" could have only arisen after they had shipwrecked sola scriptura and the pure Bible and foundational doctrine. And after they had left the centrality of the Lord Jesus for "Yahweh-worship". Christian doctrines are now a play-thing of men in rebellion.

Now, for perspective, this is not the worst doctrinal error that has infected Homestead Heritage. The worship of the devil entity "yahweh" is far more pernicious. And the Bible version juggling act is more fundamental.

However, this pledge absurdity is very helpful for understanding the deeper things of God, and the wayward movements of Homestead Heritage.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (AV)
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:
for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial?
or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord,
and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
And will be a Father unto you,
and ye shall be my sons and daughters,
saith the Lord Almighty.

The Lord Jesus Christ must be our center, which does hold. Thank you, Jesus.

Their "Yahweh-worship" equates to Belial.

The Corinthians verses inform us of our necessary steps, and the necessary steps of any Christians involved in or around Homestead Heritage.

Continuing on with their brand spanking new, private heresy "revelation" that water baptism involves a:

"...pledge of the old nature..."

The first I heard of this was quite recent.(I never saw this in any books, old or recent.) And by checking archive.org , it looks like the first time it was ever pronounced as Homestead Heritage doctrine was around November, 2015.

The elder with the most traditional Christian understanding was the late, beloved sweet brother Denny Allensworth. Denny passed away shortly after Thanksgiving 2014. My sense is that he might well have noticed that problem and spoken up.

Yet this absurdity slipped by all the elders, writers and ministers. Did it slip by Blair Adams? Did he actually read that statement of faith, carefully? I tend to think not.

Are there any Christians remaining at Homestead Heritage? You would think that any member could have pointed this out, e.g. in one of those private meetings with Howard Wheeler. Yet this spiritual abomination of a "pledge of the old nature" seems to be accepted by all. Or else, they are too cowed and fearful of elder rebuke to bring the question up forthrightly.

Whatever the full story, it is terribly amiss, Christian doctrine is fallen.
For spiritual relief, let's go back to Acts 2!

Acts 2:38-41 (AV)
Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off,
even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying,
Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[Steven Avery]

Jesus is come “in our human nature”.

ADDED: this is a new teaching from Homestead Heritage, using a horrid mistranslation from Charles Bray Williams. This mess is in their literature and/or oral talks.

(1937) The New Testament in the Language of the People

(Williams NT was mentioned by Chained Ambassador with this wacky heresy quote)
It is in p. 23 "Confessing Jesus is Come in the Flesh"
Yet the Williams and 20th Century New Testament ... 2 John 7.. render the verse:

" ... acknowledge that Jesus Christ continues to come in our human nature"

Twentieth Century New Testament
I say this because many impostors have left us to go into the world--men who do not acknowledge Jesus as Christ come in our human nature. It is that which marks a man as an impostor and an anti-Christ.
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/2-John/1/7

 

[Oseas]

I would not say "in our human nature"(animal nature) but as a man in flesh and bone according Luke 24:v. 36 to 53, and John 20:v.24 to 31, and 21:v.4 to 14.

1 John 3:v.2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in Him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.

1 Corinthians 13:v.12
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

P.S.

The expression "when He shall appear" reveals the manner "Jesus is come". In my understanding will be in the mysterious day 1.335(Dan.12:12) , 75 days after the end of the 2nd half of the last week - Daniel 9:v.27

 

[Steven Avery]

Yes, Oseas, that was a quick note, a new doctrinal blasphemy from Homestead Heritage, and I added a bit more context for now. Maybe I will pull out the book picture shortly.

It did look like I was saying that as my belief, God forbid!

And I was raised in the Christian faith in the fellership when they were generally doctrinally sound, and did have a focus on the blood of Jesus, oh precious is the flow!

Today, as yahwehista, they are going off the rails in wild and wacky ways.

 

[Oseas]

I understood, Steven.

What you said makes me to remember Ephesians 5:v.13 to 18

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

 

[Steven Avery]

Here is Edward Freer Hills on the Williams version abomination.
http://www.firstbaptistnj.org/books/TheKingJamesVersionDefended.pdf

(1) The New Testament In the Language of the People, by Charles B. Williams (1937). As he states in his preface, Williams follows the text of Westcott and Hort. He not only adopts all their errors but even goes beyond them in omitting portions of the New Testament text. For example, he omits Luke 22:43-44 (Christ's agony and bloody sweat) and Luke 23:34a (Christ's prayer for His murderers) instead of putting these passages in brackets as Westcott and Hort do. As for John 7:53-8:11 (the woman taken in adultery), he does not place this passage at the end of John's Gospel, as Westcott and Hort do, but omits it altogether. In addition, Williams interjects bits of higher criticism into his introductions to the various New Testament books. For example, he tells us that the author of John's Gospel is likely John the Apostle but some scholars think another John wrote it. It is usually thought, he says, that Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians, I and 2 Timothy, but some deny it, etc

 

[Oseas]

Greetings in Christ, Steve

What you report in your post above #7 is very serious. The point is that "no lie is of the truth" as said John the Apostle in his universal epistle-1John 2:v.21. The true warriors of the LORD must fight against the messengers of the Enemy-2Corinthians 11:v.13 to 15:

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (ministers of Satan) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Scripture reveals that Satan, that is the serpent, cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth (Israel-144K) helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

13 And when the dragon(Rev.13:v.11) saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Where is the warriors of the LORD to fight against the messengers of the Devil as is revealed by the Apostle Paul to the Church of Corinth, and described in the verses above?

Honestly, there are interpretations a lot of Scriptures that need to be revised in this time of Apocalypse, or be better explained and interpreted. For example: Revelation 7:v.1
1 - And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth(Israel), holding the four winds of the earth(Israel-Ez.37:v.9), that the wind should not blow on the earth(Israel), nor on the sea(peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues), nor on any tree(the believers/the Christians).

What is the real interpretation of Gen.1:v.1 that the Most High GOD revealed to Moses after around 2.500 years after Adam? In the beginning -i.e. in JESUS - GOD created the heavens (four heavens) and the earth(Israel). Why the name of JESUS stayed or was ocult/hidden? Well, because the name of JESUS could not be revealed in the time of Moses, it would go to be reveal only in the fourth Day, or after around 1.500 after Moses, and around 4.000 years after Adam. By the way, from Adam until today have passed around 6.000 years or six complete Days-2Peter 3:v.8.

In fact, we just entered in the beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day.


Steve, you are wiser than me and you understand what I described above. We have to overcome Satan in the Scriptures, but we need to speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory, as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him-2Cor.2:v.7and 9.

But how to overcome Satan in the Scriptures, if he is wiser than Daniel? ---> Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: Ezekiel 28:v.3

In Christ JESUS, King of kings(kings made by Him), and LORD of lords

Oseas (Hosea)

 

[Oseas]

Jesus is come “in our human nature”.

ADDED: this is a new teaching from Homestead Heritage, using a horrid mistranslation from Charles Bray Williams. This mess is in their literature.

(1937) The New Testament in the Language of the People

Back to this subject, I would like to say to the readers of this site that who will come "in our human nature" is the man of sin, the son of perdition, actually a former Cherub, the own Satan incarnated, as said JESUS: John 5:v.43-47

43 - I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER shall come in his own name (an IMPOSTOR, a false messiah), him ye will receive. In fact, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah - 2 Thessalonians 2:v.9-12 and 3-4:

9 even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be DAMNED who believed not the truth (believed not in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that Day (this Day arrived) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (This devilish MAN was born decades ago, and he will manifest himself very soon)
4 Who (will) oppose(th) and exalt(eth) himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God (will) sit(teth) in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


Be careful and get ready

 

[Steven Avery]

Homestead Heritage is still bringing forth this blasphemy.

What Does Homestead Heritage Believe? | Challenges to Potential Issues in the Teachings of Homestead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvlrQmeOpYU

At the seven minute mark of the Chained Ambassador video he shows this wacky blasphemy.

Homestead Heritage is showing their statement of faith page on their website. This hides the fact that they use the name of Yahshua and it is totally missing the remission of sins in their text.

 

[Steven Avery]

Trying to get this to post.

What Does Homestead Heritage Believe? | Challenges to Potential Issues in the Teachings of Homestead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvlrQmeOpYU

===========================================

Dec 29, 2021

Thanks!

If you look at what Homestead Heritage wrote in their statement of faith (7:00 mark in the vid) you will see one of their private interpretations, a wacky blasphemy.

====================

"We believe in believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus as well as into the lordship of Jesus and that therefore takes place in the name of Jesus."

Homestead Heritage - What We Believe
http://www.homesteadheritage.com/beliefs/

====================

A pledge is, by definition, something of value! If you think your old nature has value, you have flunked Christianity 101! By contrast water baptism simply answers a good conscience:

1 Peter 3:21 (AV)
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us
(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

And how could that old nature be pledged "into the Lordship of Jesus"?

The old nature is dung, and has no value. Peter, Paul and Jude et al, did not offer their old nature to the Lord Jesus Christ. God forbid!

The purpose of water baptism (in oneness baptismal regeneration thinking) is to remove those sins as far as the east is from the west.

====================

We never had this type of wacky teaching from Blair Adams in the 1970s and early 80s. We were guided by solid apostolic teaching on water baptism. (Many may disagree, but it was consistent and real and sensible.)

====================

Steven (Avery) Spencer
Dutchess County, NY USA

 

[Steven Avery]

(This also relates to their new strange fire teachings on the supposed trading of assets and liabilities that is now in their videos, as if we are in a bargaining bazaar when we come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.)

What is the Gospel? by Homestead Heritage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqGzUFmPD_g

At 11:46, there was an "exchange of assets and liabilities" - the section starts earlier.

========================

There is also absurd stuff about a "new husband".
This is partly because they do not believe in marriage permanence.

.

 

[Oseas]

Hi Steven Avery
Greetings in Christ JESUS

I took a look at the video above, what I can and should say is that John the Apostle saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH of the dragon, and out of the MOUTH of the Beast, and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet. Actually, a satanic trinity. GOD's people know that Satan, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, and now, in the time of Apocalypse, is called the great dragon, he is cast down out from the heavenly place by a War-Revelation 12. I can say I am one of the warrior in this War. That said, using the Sword of the Lord, the Word of GOD, I posted a message for the messenger of the video who I called "O raven Ambassador chained", as follows: (If you want you can delete it)

Oseas - há 54 minutos (editado)​

Is that your message and doctrines, O Ambassador raven chained? you suggest to built a Homestead Heritage on the earth as is usual among humans. I read that after forty days Noah opened the window of the Ark which he had built; and he sent out a raven, which flew back to and fro until the waters had dried up off from the earth. Actually, the raven, after the waters dried up off from earth, it flew not back to the Ark, the raven landed on the surface of the ground among the dead, because out of the Ark there were deads exclusively, the terrestrial environment was in the way the raven likes, isn't it? O raven Ambassador chained. On the other hand, "Noah sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the Ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the Ark. And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the Ark; And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off:" - Genesis 8:v.8-11. Honestly, who has the Spirit of GOD will prefer to stay inside the Ark, since JESUS planted His HOLY GOSPEL, and His doctrines, followed by His Apostles, the GOSPEL of the Lord has been the Ark where the dove, where the Holy Spirit is, and is the place where he works, being him among those that are within the Ark, do you understand, O raven Ambassador chained? By the way, by whom are you chained remaining among the dead that perished face GOD's Judgment? That is the question. O raven Ambassador chained! the Lord JESUS said: Follow me, and let the DEAD bury their dead-Matt.8:v.22 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence-Psalm 115:v.17.
Revelation 21:v.8-CJB - But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the OCCULT and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all LIARS — their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death.”

Get ready, O raven Ambassador chained!

 

[Steven Avery]

Just to be sure there is no confusion, I am not Chained Ambassador .

Sometimes I comment on his vids, but it is hard to get moderately long comments to stick.
Plus, I have a far more extensive background with the fellership.

 

[Oseas]

Just to be sure there is no confusion, I am not Chained Ambassador .

Sometimes I comment on his vids, but it is hard to get moderately long comments to stick.
Plus, I have a far more extensive background with the fellership.

Of course, Steven, I know you are not Chained Ambassador, maybe I was misunderstood, so I must clarify that the message above I posted in the site of youtube in the space destined for comments,

, whose message I sent to the video's author and, after, I posted it above for your knowledge, and also of all readers. I reacted against the author of the video, after all Satan must be cast into the bottomless pit in this current time of Apocalypse.

Again, my above message was not sent to you, to your person, of course, it was sent to the author of the video in the site of Youtube, who I called as "a raven Ambassador Chained" , after all I know who chained him, and I spiritually associated him, by analogy, to the raven of Noah's Ark-Genesis 8:v.6-8- as I above commented.

 

[Steven Avery]

As of 2024, they have removed the blasphemy in their new statement of faith.

 

[Steven Avery]

Thanks, Raven.
Excellent!
It is very good to document the Homestead Heritage shifting sands.

They finally removed a horrid blasphemy that goes back to at least 2015 (checked the Wayback Machine) and I have pointed it out since 2018.

This ultra-blasphemy had a 9-year run!

=========

“—We believe in believer’s baptism (immersion) as a pledge of the old nature into the sacrificial death of Jesus …”

========

A pledge is something of value, so they were considering their “old nature” as something of value!

My 2018 write-up, I also shared this to them directly, privately.

Pure Bible Forum
baptism as a “pledge of the old nature” - Jesus is come “in our human nature”
https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...ure”-jesus-is-come-“in-our-human-nature”.537/

Yours in Jesus,
Steven (Avery) Spencer

 

[Oseas]

Hello Steven

Greetings

Praise be to GOD, that's the most I can say, this is because unfortunately I don't understand nothing listening the video's message in English, so I didn't understand what Raven explained in the video, English is not my native language, I can only write in English, but not so well like you, and it with difficulty, of course.

Anyway, what matters and prevails is what will be the reward of him before the Judgment Seat of Christ, determined to happen in this current time of the end, the time of Apocalypse.

Thank you