Christopher W. Clark - Nehemia Gordon (16 Rabbis Speak Out), Thomas Ross and more

Steven Avery

Administrator
16 Rabbis.jpg

1. Tikunei Zohar, c. 1300
2. Menachem Tziyoni, 14th Century
3. Shabbethai Sofer, 1603
4. Meir Mahar'am of Lublin, 1608
5. Asber Lemel of Krakow, 16th Century
6. Anonymous Book of Kabballah
7. Isaiah Horowitz, 17th Century
8. Kalonymus Epstein of Krakow, 18th Century
9. Samuel David Luzzatto, 1834
10. Jacob Bachrach, 1890
11. Eliezer Ashkenazi,Ma'asei Hashem, 1583
12. Levi Yitzchak of Berdychiv, Kedushat Levi, 1798
13. Moshe Chaim Ephraim, Degel Machaneh Ephraim, c. l8OO
14. Abraham Danziger, Chayei Adam, 1810
15. Rabbi Benjamin Blech, The Secret of Hebrew Words, 1977
16. Ovadyah Yoseph, Yabia Omer, vol. 9, 2002

10 Rabbis Speak Out on the Name of God" by Nehemia Gordon brings evidence from newly discovered Hebrew manuscripts proving that Jewish rabbis preserved the true pronunciation of God's holy name. This graphic is a snapshot from Nehemia's Support Team Study in which he shares the names of 16 Rabbis from the year 1300 to the year 2002 who all agree the pronunciation of God's name is: YeHoVaH
https://www.nehemiaswall.com/ten-rabbis-name-god-1

Christopher W. Clark
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...741830.100013088989435&type=3&hc_location=ufi.


=========================

The Talks and Research of Nehemia are behind a donation set-up.
And I recommend joining at least for a month or three, since this is superb original research.


Ten Rabbis Speak Out on the Name of God – Part 1
Oct 4, 2017 - 51 minutes
https://www.nehemiaswall.com/ten-rabbis-name-god-1


Sources:
Pavlos D. Vasileiadis, | "Aspects of rendering the sacred Tetragrammaton in Greek"
Robert J. Wilkinson, Tetragrammaton: Western Christians and the Hebrew Name of God: From the Beginnings to the Seventeenth Century
Joseph Dan, History of Jewish Mysticism and Esotericism
The Footnote (Movie)

SA: Fine info from:

Psalm 91:14
2:00 - Radak (love) -David Kimhi - "Knowing the Tetragrammaton is loving God.."

4:45 - Elijah of Vilna (at times referenced by the "forgotten names" folks, the secret aspect)
"quoted in Jewish sources .. to say .. look, our rabbis in the middle ages didn't know how to pronounce the tetragrammaton"

"The vowels of the Name itself are hidden... its vowels are the secret of the Tetragrammaton."


missing vowels (Aleppo Codex) "The assumption is that they know what the vowel is"
7:25 - Masoretic Manuscripts with full vowels
"as of this recording, 150 .. with the full vowels"

Six Key Manuscripts

1. Aleppo Codex (930)
2. Leningrad Codex (1008)
3. British Library, Or 4445 (920-950)
4. Cairo Codex of the Prophets (895)
5. Damascus Crown, Sassoon 507 (I0th Century) - full vowels are quite often, even 3 in a row
6. Sassoon 1053 (10th Century)

8:20 - Aleppo Codex - Ezekiel 28:22 (pic) - excellent example
it would be read as Elohim, so it would not have the vowels of Adonai, and it has Yehovah!

9:05 - Leningrad Codex, Leviticus 25:17
British Library, Or44453 Leviticus 22:9
Cairo Codex of the Prophets, Ezekiel 7:4
Damascus Crown, Deuteronomy 6:4
Sassoon 1053, Exodus 10:9


11:05 - "Jehovah is simply the English pronunciation of Yehovah"

11:15 “The pronunciation Jehovah was unknown until 1520, when it was introduced by Galatinus.."
Brown-Driver-Briggs, page 218

12:00 “...these four letters... if they are read as punctuated, ...(as you yourself well know) they make “Iehova”. However the Jews do not dare to pronounce it as it is written, but put forth in its place Adonai, which is the same thing as Lord.”
Galatinus, De Arcanis Catholicae Veritatis, 1518, folio 48b
Codex Reuchlinianus, Joshua 21:1 (pic) -

dialog with John Reuchlin, author of Augenspiegel,

. He gave his work the form of a dialogue. The two conflicting Christian parties were represented by Capnio (Reuchlin) and the Inquisitor Jacob van Hoogstraaten, O.P. In conciliatory terms, Galatino responded to the queries and suggestions of the former, and refuted the objections of the latter. - Wikipedia

Nice 1 minute summary at 12:55

13:50 Inspiration for this study
"the distinctly Christian ‘Jehovah.’ ”
Robert J. Wilkinson, Tetragrammaton: Western Christians and the Hebrew Name of God (Leiden, 2015), page 46

14:20 - "ok, challenge accepted!"
14:55 "impossible hybrid form?"

Impossible Hybrid Form.jpg

"the vowels .. the consanants.. this reminds me of the verse"

15:45
The voice is the voice of Jacob, but the hands are the hands of Esau” Genesis 27:22

15:50 examples of impossible hybrid forms
Jer 42:6 - anu(slang) anachnu qere/ketiv - result 3 letters have 4 vowels (from anachnu) this is an impossible hybrid form
2 Kings 18:27 -

25:00 - explains how the vowels of Adonai would make a hybrid form - Nehemia explains that there would be no need to change the first vowel
27:05 - "utter nonsense" - "this is a unique situation, in a sense"
27:20 - a number of manuscripts .. the scribe put in exactly the vowels of Adonai
Russian National Library, EVR II, B 3

28:48 - "Now, when scholars ignore Jewish sources, they then turn to other sources"

Sources for Pronunciation of YHVH
1. Christian Greek
2. Pagan Greek
3. [Samaritan] Greek
4. Gnostic Coptic
5. Akkadian

29:40
Study by Thessalonika scholar - Pavlos D. Vasileiadis, "Aspects of rendering the sacred Tetragrammaton in Greek"
Greek Transcriptions of YHVH (33 different ways up the year 500)
#15 is the only one in Jewish source
31:55 - British Library, Papyrus 121, 3rd cent. CE - "something like Yehovah"
32:25 - Gilbert Génébrard, Chronographiae, 1599, page 77

"the earliest person in history to ever use the name Yahweh in Hebrew is Gilbert Génébrard, who is a Christian, and he wrote a book called the Chronographiae in 1599 and on p. 77 he actually refers to Theodorus (Theodoritus in G) of Cyrus who is quoting the Samaritans and he says "based on what Theodorus says in Greek, we can speculate that the Hebrew behind this Greek is Yahiveh". He writes this in Latin ... Wilkinson .. refers to Génébrard, as the "inventor of Yahweh"... Theodoret doesn't write Yahweh, he writes IABE... the first one to back-translate it is Gilbert Genebrard.

33:35 - Scholar at University of Helsinki in Finland
A NAG HAMMADI CONTRIBUTION TO THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PRONUNCIATION OF THE TETRAGRAMMATON
Antti Marjanen
Assumption: Taking into account the fact that the sacredness of the Tetragrammaton2 had prevented its public utterance among the Jews in the first centuries of the CE, and the knowledge of its right pronunciation had begun to deteriorate and had altogether vanished in the Middle Ages,3 - (good response from Nehemia)

Gnostic Apocryphon of John
Yaldabaoth (Son of Chaos) Rapes Eve
Gives birth to Yahweh

"can we at least hear what the Jews have to say?"

36:50 -Shows Elijah of Vilna

37:25 - Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence, "I'm not a conspiracy theorist"

37:35
Sages transmit the four-letter name to their disciples once in a seven-year period
Babylonian Talmud, Kidushin 71A Rabbah Bar Bar Chanah, c. 250-300

minority opinion - others say twice in the 7-year period
The rabbinical ban on the name was never for them (!)

39:45
Book of the Divine Name (Sefer Hashem)
Eleazar Roke’ach of Worms
Written: 1225
Published: 2004 (first published, it was in manuscript form)
"a ceremony for transmitting the name"

"Y"Y is the unicjue honorable and terrifying name... It may only be transmitted to the modest... It may only be transmitted over water... Before the rabbi teaches his disciple, they must wash in water and immerse in 40 se'ah [of water], donning white clothes. They must fast on the day they learn it, standing in water up to their ankles. The rabbi will then open his mouth in awe and say, "Blessed are you Y"Y, our God, king of the universe. Y"Y, God of Israel, you are one and your name is one. You commanded us to hide your great name, for your name is terrifying. Blessed are you Y"Y, and blessed is your glorious name forever, the honorable and terrifying name, Y"Y our God. ...Blessed are you Y"Y who reveals his secret to those who fear him. The rabbi and his disciple shall place their eyes upon the water and say, "... 'The sound of Y"Y upon the water' (Psalms 29:3)”

"...in this description, Rabbi Eieazar presented a tradition that was practiced in his surroundings and family, and that he may have participated in himself, both as a disciple and a rabbi..."
Joseph Dan, History of Jewish Mysticism and Esotericism, vol. 6, page 561

“The voice of the LORD is upon the waters” [KJV]
46:10 - 2nd witness
Joseph Ibn Tzayach, 15th Century - never translated to English, never printed in Hebrew - Responsa (answers to questions) - (autograph)

Question #43 -
A certain sage has been uttering the name according to [its] letters and a certain rabbi rebuked him for this. But [the sage] was stubborn in his actions...
Joseph ibn Tzayach, 15th Century
=============================
 
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Steven Avery

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Ten Rabbis Speak Out on the Name of God – Part 2

And here is Part 2


Ten Rabbis Speak Out on the Name of God – Part 2
Masoretic Text info
Oct 18, 2017 - 1:21 minutes

https://www.nehemiaswall.com/ten-rabbis-name-god-2


Tikunei Zohar
Menachem Ha-Tziyoni, Sefer Ha-Tziyoni
Shabbethai Sofer, Teshuvat HaGeonim
Responsa, Maharam of Lublin
Yeshayahu Horowitz, Shnei Luchot HaBrit
Kalonymus Kalman HaLevi Epstein of Krakow, Maor VaShemesh
Samuel David Luzzatto, Commentary on the Torah
Jacob Bachrach, Ishtadalut Im Shadal
Overview of the Nehemia Gordon material on the name available at Nehemia's Wall
https://www.nehemiaswall.com/nehemia-gordon-name-god

1:30 - 16 Rabbis with Map (pic)

1:40 - "there's probably more than 16"
"the distinctly Christian Yehovah"

#1 Tikunei Zohar -
The
secret of the vowels of YHVH, and the
secret of the word “only in your fathers did
YHVH set his love (chashak)” (Deuteronomy
10:15) is “because he has set his
love
(chashak)
upon Me, therefore will I deliver
him...[
because he has known my name]"
(Psalms 91:14).
...........Tikunei Zohar, c. 1300
7:35 - you have to see it in Hebrew ... chashak is an acronym. The Hebrew language loves acronyms.
9:15 - "what this passage in the Zohar means is that the vowels of the name are Yehovah
very interesting explanation of how this was sent to Nehemia, and he thought it would be the only rabbinical support

Deuteronomy 10:15 (AV)
Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them,
and he chose their seed after them,
even you above all people,
as it is this day.

Psalm 91:14 (AV)
Because he hath set his love upon me,
therefore will I deliver him:
I will set him on high,
because he hath known my name.
10:20 - 2. Menachem Tziyoni, 14th century (around 1375)

(section will be tweaked)

["This is my name forever" Exodus 5=1^1 There Is also a secret here received by tradition in the vowels of "this is my name forever (Le'olam oTiv!?)", for they are the vowels of the Great Name.

It's mnemonic is "Who in heaven (shach”al<.) can measure up to You...”
(PS 89:61/1)
[Sheva Cholam Kamatz] Menachem Tziyonij Century

This is the secret of... "I will guard the
testimony of jour mouth, [Le'olam, YHVH]
"(Ps 119:88[89]. what is "the testimony of
your mouth"? The palate is the cholam, the
teeth are the sheva, and the tongue is the
opening which is the kamatz...

Thus far the words of the man who
revealed the secret to me.

The rule of this secret is “only in your
fathers did Y"Y set his
love (chash'ak) (Deuteronomy 10:15).
17:00 PIC
Chash”ak
Shach"ak
Sheva Cholam Kamatz

17:30 - picture of manuscript
Munich, Bayerische StaatBibliothek,
Hss Cod.hebr. 76-fol.56a-55a

New York, Jewish Theological Seminary,
Ms. lO3O, folio 46a

19:10 - "I kept searching... I'm searching for other pronunciations, I'm searching for Yahweh! Where are the rabbis who say its Yahweh? I'm searching trying to find them."

================

19:20 #3 - "very different from the first two"
"The greatest grammarian of the 17th century ... of the late Jewish middle ages."

Shabbethai Sofer (the scribe), 1608

"established the modern rabbinical prayer book .. wrote down letter for letter, vowel for vowel, what the correct grammatical pronunciation of rabbinical prayers should say .. he wrote a letter in 1608 .. September 14, 1608"

“This world is not like the world to
come. In this world the name is written
Yeho[vah] and read Ado[nai] but in the
world to come it will be one,
written YH[VH] and read YH[VH].”
Talmud, Pesachim 5Oa
Zechariah 14:9
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
in that day shall there be one LORD,
and his name one.

Is it not known... the saying of the
Sages [Babylonian "Talmud, Pesachim
50A]... 'In
This World, it is written
YH[VH] and read Ado[nai], In the
World to Come, it will be written YH[VH]
and read YH[VH]...

And behold, when it is read as YH[VH],
in the World to Come, then its vowels
will be
Shach’ak.
[
Sheva Cholam Kamatz]
Shabbethai Sofer, Sep 14, 1608


24:15 pic of the letter in print (1707 Amsterdam)

24:45 - beautiful pic of letters
#3 Sheva Colam Kamatz#3 Sheva Colam Kamatz.jpg
Facebook
Nehemia Gordon - April 14. 2017
https://www.facebook.com/NehemiaGordon/posts/10155316816558629:0

Rabbi Shabbethai Sofer wrote in 1608:

'And behold, when it is read as YH[VH], in the World to Come, then its vowels will be Shach”ak'.

Shach"ak is a Hebrew acronym that stands for the vowels Sheva Cholam Kamatz, the three vowels in the original pronunciation of God's holy Name "Yehovah". Rabbis Sofer was explaining that when the traditional ban on pronouncing God's name is finally lifted, then it will be pronounced according to its true vowels "Yehovah", and not as it is currently pronounced by tradition as "Adonai". The end to the ban will only happen, according to Rabbi Sofer, in the "World to Come", when the Messiah reigns as a flesh and blood king over the Earth. This is based on the verse, "For then I will turn the nations to a pure language to all call upon the name of Yehovah, to serve Him with one accord" (Zephaniah 3:9).

May we all gather at the rebuilt Temple next year in Jerusalem to call on the Name of Yehovah with one accord!

Published in: Teshuvot HaGeonim, Amsterdam 1707, folio 3b.



24:57 - #4
 
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Steven Avery

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24:57 - #4,5,6
4. Meir Mahar”am of Lublin, 1608 - quotes @5 - Shabbethai Sofer quoted him as famous rabbi, leading of his generation

Know, my beloved, how extremely
difficult it is to put things like this in
writing and even more so a letter sent
about from place to place... [concerning]
the vowels of the Tetragrammaton, which
are Sheva Cholam Kamatz...

I found in the words of mu grandfather... our
teacher Rabbi Asher [Lemel], head of the Beth
Din of Krakow... he wrote a holy book... called
Emek Ha-Brachah
, but because of its immense
holiness it was never printed... that it not be used
by those who are not worthy.

(Emek Ha-Brachah has not been found .. a lost book)

This is what it says in chapter 34:
...[concerning] the Tetragrammaton
...its vowels received from Sinai are
Sheva Cholam Kamatz...

Meir Mahar”am of Lublin, 1608
quoting Asher of Krakow, 16th Century

[Asher Lemel of Krakow] also brought
proof that he found in a certain holy
book of Kabballah, and this is what it
says:

According to the tradition received from
the Sages, out of the mouth of the
prophets (of blessed memory), which they
received from the mouth of the Almighty...

the vowels of the Actual Name... are
with a servant at its head, and a king
over it in the middle, and the hall of
understanding
vowel at its end...

My grandfather [Asher of Krakow]
explained... Sheva is called "servant"...
Cholam is called "king"... Kamatz is
called the "ball of understanding".

I have one recjuest, that you hide this
letter in a pure and holy place and not
allow it to be passed around here and
there...

Meir Mahar”am of Lublin, 1608
quoting; Asher of Krakow, 16tln Century
quoting Anonymous Book of Kabballah

Know my lord, that ! also Icnow that...
the vocalization of the Actual Name [is]
with the vowels
Shach”ak... as ! have
already written...


[Sheva Cholam Kamatz]

"And that which your excellency wrote,
to hide his excellency's letter in a pure
and holy place, that it not be passed
about... it is concealed among my
possessions, sealed up in my vaults..."

Shabbethai Sofer, Apr 12, 1609

5. Asher of Krakow, 16^ Century (quoted by Meir Mahar''am) he quotes #6

6. quoted by Asher of Krakow


"this is unbelievable, we were never meant to see these letters"

"here again, we have a rabbi telling us Sheva Cholam Kamatz."

33:xx - great explanation of how Nehemia came upon all this - "a several month study"
35:15 - why did nobody else find that?

"academic studies that quote the gnostic Coptic sources, that quote the Akkadian sources, that quote every pagan and heathen source that you can imagine, I have never seen anybody quote the Mahar”am of Lublin, saying that the name is Sheva Cholam Kamatz... pretty easy to find .. so if they don't know, it means they didn't even look ... no one ever looked to see what the Jews have to say about how to pronounce the name."

Personal section, very helpful

38:50 - genealogy
56:00 - 58:00 - conspiracy of silence



 

Steven Avery

Administrator
7th rabbi

And more!

1:01:45
Seventh Rabbi

Yeshayahu Horowitz (Shal”ah HaKadosh), 17th Century

"Only in your fathers did YHVH set his love
(chashak)"
(Deuteronomy 10:15). It is known
that the name YHVH has the vowels Cholam
Sheva Kamatz, which form the acronym
Chash”ak (love)..."


1:02:45
Rabbi #8

Kalonymus Kalman HaLevi Epstein of Krakow (Maor VaShemesh), 18th Century

...the man who has awe, love, and truth
and puts his entire soul into prayer with
the words and letters, the vowels of the
Name will form on their own.

The vowels of awe, love, and truth are
Sheva Cholam Kamatz, as is known to
those who know... which form the
acronym Shach"ak.

Kabonot (?) - a type of kabbalistic meditation


1:05:40 - Rabbi #9

Samuel David Luzzatto (Shad”al), 1834
(we have the autograph)

Many have researched how this name
was read... and what its original vowels
were... It seems to me, that the vowels
with which it is vocalized in most places
[יְהֹוָה] are the original vowels.

The Kamatz of Yah [יָהּ] changes
to Sheva [יְהֹוָה] when the word is
elongated...

====

Printed editions of the Bible were showing the full vowels
Leviticus, Dubrovna 1804 (pic)

1:07:40 "even back then, there were people who, in defense of Yahweh, would say "well we know its Yah in Halleluyah..."
(possible correction: Yahweh may not yet exist as a supposed name)


PIC of Elongation - yah and yahu suffix
PIC of Autograph
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
Jacob Bachrach


Jacob Bachrach, 1890 (published in 1896, we have the 1890 autograph)
(famous as rabbinical apologist against the Kariates)

If the vowels in the Tetragrammaton were indeed
the vowels of Adonai, precision would have
required putting a Chataf-Patach under the Yod
for the Aleph of Adonai...

the vowels Sheva Cholam Kamatz
... specifically belong to the Unique Name alone.

There is not a single vowel here that comes
from, or remains from, a reference to the title
Adonai, or even hints at it. With these vowels,
the priests in the Temple used to call on the
Unique Name the way it is written... These
vowels ...are its own vowels intended for the
Kohanim in the Temple to call [on the Name]...

The way [the Name] is written, with its letters
and vowels Sheva Cholam Kamatz, are eternal,
for if there were a Temple standing todatj... even
now the Kohanim would be calling on it the way it
is written, with its letters and these vowels, and
so too the High Priest ten times on Yom Kippur...

According to the rulings that have come down
to us, there is no prohibition from the Torah to
speak the Name the way it is written. However,
the custom not to pronounce the Name the way
it is written is very old... Thus... it is not right to
[pronounce the Name], but there is no
prohibition from the Torah
....

There was a time, and there shall again be a
time (a time when all the peoples, all of them,
will call on the name of Y"Y, and Y"Y will be one
and His name will be one)... for this [tradition
of] reading what is not written [i.e. Adonai] will
be completely abolished and then we will all
read it the way it is written [Yehovah]...


(two great pics of what vowels would be)
(Nehemia discusses how he did not have this in 2002 or when they wrote Shattering the Conspiracy of Silence .. it is virtually quoting Shattering 120 years before it was written)
(pic of 1896 printing)
(pic of 1890 hand-written autograph)
amazing things, he talks about the prepositions and the open
syllables and the closed syllable
takanot of the rabbis


Al Garza has it like this:

And yet another more modern Rabbi named Jacob Bachrach in 1890 also explained the true vowels against the vowels of Adonai as some Western scholars have and still believe. He writes,
If the vowels in the Tetragrammaton were indeed the vowels of Adonai, precision would have required putting a Chataf-Patach under the Yod for the Aleph of Adonaithe vowels Sheva, Cholam, Kamatz specifically belong to the Unique Name alone. There is not a single vowel here that comes from or remains from, a reference to the title Adonai, or even hints at it. With these vowels, the priests in the Temple used to call on the Unique Name the way it is written …These vowels…are its own vowelsintended for the Kohanim in the Temple to call [on the name]The way [The Name] is written, with its letters and vowels Sheva Cholam Kamatz, are eternal, for if there was a Temple standing today…even now the Kohanim would be calling on it the way it is written, with its letters and these vowels, and so too the High Priest ten times on Yom KippurAccording to the rulings that have come down to us, there is no prohibition from the Torah to speak the Name the way it is written. However, the custom not to pronounce the Name the way it is written is very old…thus…it is not right to [pronounce the Name], but there is no prohibition from the Torah…”






https://www.facebook.com/NehemiaGor...71892568628/10155919108473629/?type=1&theater

Rabbi Jacob Bachrach's original autograph manuscript of his book Ishtadalut Im Shadal where he declares unequivocally that God's holy name is correctly pronounced Yehovah:


"...the vowels Sheva Cholam Kamatz [=Yehovah] are not the vowels of the title Adonai, but they specifically belong to the Unique Name alone. There is not a single vowel here that comes from, or remains from, a reference to the title Adonai, [or even hints at it]. With these vowels, the priests in the Temple used to call on the Unique and Explicit Name the way it is written..."


Ishtadalut Im Shadal, 1890, Jewish Theological Seminary, Manuscript 2883, Page 178, Section 134 [Page 127, Section 136 in the 1896 printed edition]
Steven Avery
These are superb findings of Hebraic sources that knew the proper pronunciation of the tetragram and that it had never been lost.

Combined with the Masoretic text findings and the simple and powerful evidence of dozens of theophoric names with the exa
ct same Yeho- prefix, or first two syllables, letters and vowels, we now have a unified set of corroborative evidences that essentially end the pronunciation debate. The debate has largely been Yehovah (or Jehovah) vs. Yahweh (and some similar two syllable forms. Also now safely discarded are a group of oddball three-syllable attempts beginning with Yah- like Yahuah.)

Now, it may take a while for the scholars working in arcane realms to wake up. Bible believers can rejoice that this formerly thorny issue has been resolved.

As an extra bonus, it helps resolve the issue of phony names of the Messiah like Yahshua and Yahushua, that were only invented around 1930 by know-nothing American sacred namers, in order to fabricate some sort of match for Yahweh.

Similarly Nehemia has been willing to take the flak by researching the sources of error, with special note to the Have You Been Praying to Jupiter? tape.

Thanks and appreciation to Nehemia for making this a point of solid, consistent and fascinating research over these years. Nehemia has also taken the true scholar's approach of continually adding and refining and tweaking his understandings, always following the evidences.

And I was blessed to be there in Jeruslaem in 2002 when Nehemia first spoke publicly on this tetragram Hebrew Bible pronunciation debate. It was amazing then, and even far more amazing and complete today!

Steven Avery

writing from Zikhron Ya'akov, Israel

==========================

To ADD;

CARM discussion with Jason Hare continues here
https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/theology/general-christian-topics/biblical-languages/4840470-jehovah-as-the-pronunciation-of-%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95%D7%94?p=5266730#post5266730

Nehemia Added notes to help Jason:

In chapter 137 on pages 129-130, Bachrach is
explaining the concept of Qere-Ketiv. He points out
that in a genuine Qere-Ketiv, we do not have the
vowels for the Ketiv, i.e. the form written in the body of
the text, because the vowels inserted into the Ketiv
belong to the Qere. Bachrach emphasizes the precision
of the Qere-Ketiv system, giving examples in which the
vowels of the Ketiv are impossible for the Ketiv,
proving these vowels belong only to the Qere (e.g.
vocal Sheva in Ayin). He concludes from this that the
vowels Sheva-Cholam-Kamatz can't be the vowels of
Adonai, because this would have required a Chataf-Patach
for the Aleph of Adonai (I quote this part in my
Ten Rabbis study and posted the passage on FB).
Bachrach doesn't dispute that YHVH was read
according to the title Adonai and he even argues this
was done by the High Priest in the Temple on Yom
Kippur alongside actually pronouncing the
Tetragrammaton “ten times”. Bachrach concludes:

"Therefore, the vowels in the letters Y-H-V-H are
specifically (HEN HEN) according to the way it is
written alone and not according to its title, which is
not primary to it."

In other words, unlike in a Qere-Ketiv where we don't
know the vowels of the Ketiv (written form) and only
have the vowels of the Qere, in the case of YHVH, the
vowels belong only to the written form and not to the
title Adonai. Adonai, which is read in place of YHVH
under certain circumstances, has its own vowels, which
are different than the vowels found in Y-H-V-H
(Chataf-Patach vs. Sheva).
In chapter 137 on pages 129-130, Bachrach is explaining the concept of Qere-Ketiv. He points out that in a genuine Qere-Ketiv, we do not have the vowels for the Ketiv, i.e. the form written in the body of the text, because the vowels inserted into the Ketiv belong to the Qere. Bachrach emphasizes the precision of the Qere-Ketiv system, giving examples in which the vowels of the Ketiv are impossible for the Ketiv, proving these vowels belong only to the Qere (e.g. vocal Sheva in Ayin). He concludes from this that the vowels Sheva-Cholam-Kamatz can't be the vowels of Adonai, because this would have required a Chataf-Patach for the Aleph of Adonai (I quote this part in my Ten Rabbis study and posted the passage on FB). Bachrach doesn't dispute that YHVH was read according to the title Adonai and he even argues this was done by the High Priest in the Temple on Yom Kippur alongside actually pronouncing the Tetragrammaton “ten times". Bachrach concludes:

The section I posted on FB from Bachrach is from a different section: www.facebook.com/NehemiaGordon/photos/a.10155774263713629.1073741831.371892568628/10155919108473629

Bachrach's overall thesis is that the vowels were written down by the time of the Talmud and when it speaks about not reading the name "the way it is written" it means with the vowels Sheva-Cholam-Kamatz.


He is opposed to Shadal who argued that the vowels were written down by the Masoretes. The name of the book is "Confrontations with Shadal" (that's a loose translation).


 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Rabbis #2 - 11 to 16


117:30 - the 10 rabbis

11. Eliezer Ashkenazi, Ma'asei Hashem, 1583
12. Levi Yitzchak of Berdychiv, Kedushat Levi, 1798
13. Moshe Chaim Ephraim, Degel Machaneh Ephraim, c.1800
14. Abraham Danziger, Chayei Adam, 1810
15. Rabbi Benjamin Blech, The Secret of Hebrew Words, 1577 (English)
16. Ovadyah Yoseph, Yabia Omer, vol. 9, 2002 (probably the most famous of all the Rabbis)

"as far as I know, none of these 14 Hebrew sources have ever been translated into English before"
(Zohar is Aramaic, Blech is English, = 16)

"... we saw that scholars ignore the Jewish sources. They'll will look at any pagan or heathen source, anybody but the Jews, just not the Jews"
pic of name with vowels (from before)

Note: this presentation does not include any Christian Hebraist rabbis, like Drach

119:15 - prayer
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
Rabbis Speak Out #2 - Sources and Comments


Sources

Tikunei Zohar

Menachem Ha-Tziyoni, Sefer Ha-Tziyoni

Shabbethai Sofer, Teshuvat HaGeonim

Responsa, Maharam of Lublin

Yeshayahu Horowitz, Shnei Luchot HaBrit

Kalonymus Kalman HaLevi Epstein of Krakow, Maor VaShemesh

Samuel David Luzzatto, Commentary on the Torah

Jacob Bachrach, Ishtadalut Im Shadal


======================

Comment - Mark Dunn
Sheva = servant עבד ebed
Cholam = King מלך Melek
Kamatz = circle of understanding דּוּר (dur) בּין (bîyn)
or חוּג (chug) תּבוּן (tâbûn) [all from Strong’s/BDB]

Comment - Gregg
Oh. One thing I almost forgot. You’ve said recently, “No one lets the Jews speak” or something like that. Well, last night in bed, the thought came to me, that often, people I deal with won’t let “you, Nehemia” speak. You are probably the best known proponent of God’s Name being proclaimed today. Amazingly, a lot of “Hebrew rootsers” or other “Christians” aren’t sure they want a Jewish guy teaching them about God. Now, they’ll listen to rabbis all day, and teachers who embrace rabbinics also. But not the Karaite who knows and can clearly explain the Name of our Father for the world; let alone the karaite who can help us learn the true way of following the Biblical calendar with the Aviv Barley and sighting of the moon and all that goes with it. Man that is frustrating!
 
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