cola et commata - sense-lines - lists - anachronism for a 4th century Sinaiticus?

Steven Avery

Administrator
Is their strong placement in Sinaiticus an anachronism for 4th century.

This was a major point of Uspensky, he said cola et commata began with Euthalius quite late

(Single line lists are even more space-wasting than sense-lines in poetic books)

Timothy Mitchell tries to find possible predecessors in P46.

Jay Curry Treat mentions Jerome

Scherbenske (can he be contacted, one attempt in the past ?, he had something quirky)
has the major discussion in:

CANONIZING PAUL: ANCIENT EDITORIAL PRACTICE AND THE CORPUS PAULINUM

Verheyden seems unfamiliar with what Euthalius wrote.
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Jongkind p. 36
1709701562150.png


Looking to see if Jongkind mentions the list spots, using Mitchell as a guide.
Use Index of Scriptural Passages

First yes
Luke 3:23 Genealogy of Jesus p. 284, not in Eusebian apparatus
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
Tim Mitchell list of lists .. we should make pictures of many

the lists given by Timothy Mitchell - CSP pics with text
 
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Steven Avery

Administrator
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
 

Steven Avery

Administrator
Facebook - Nerdy Biblical Language Majors
https://www.facebook.com/groups/NerdyLanguageMajors/posts/5496906517078639/

Nerdy Biblical Language Majors
董雅各
The red box is the end of John 5:3 in Sinaiticus, and then next word is John 5:5. Is it just me, or is the extra space here out of the ordinary for Sinaiticus. It seems to me something interesing is going on, such as 1. Verse 4 was there and it was rubbed out, or 2. There was uncertainty about verse 4, so they left space for it just in case., or 3. Maybe it's "crossed out" in a previous manuscript they had, but they wanted to preserve the colum alignment of a previous manuscript.
I am wondering if anyone here has dug into this one and has thoughts on it.

1771546828234.png
 

Steven Avery

Administrator

William Varner ·
The three isolated words describe the three types of disadvantaged people who were at the pool. While it is possible to squeeze ΧΩΛΩΝ at the end of the preceding line, the scribe probably desired to emphasize the separate identity of the three groups.
I wonder if the space after ΞΗΡΩΝ was intended to call attention to a lengthy variant reading about the Angel descending and stirring the waters.
Would love if Dirk Jongkind from Tyndale House could weigh in on this text.

董雅各
William Varner Agreed. It did occur to me that it would be quite logical to format these out as a list, and perhaps some desire for emphasis as well, but that then makes me wonder why this particular list deserves emphasis over others. Perhaps this particular scribe just liked lists? It would be interesting to hear from someone who might have looked into this.

董雅各
In Vaticanus, its just a tiny paragraph type space:
1771546994427.png


Peter Alexander
Well I can't see any sign of blotting but maybe the scribe was copying one manuscript knew of the varient and switched manuscripts for this section. It may explain the formatting of this section because it is written as the end of a certain document then starts again
I think there was editing for this manuscript some think that based on the end of Mark. So iv heard

董雅各
Peter Alexander Yes, the ending of Mark in Sinaiticus is super interesting. It has a large blank space. They definitely knew of the ending and either weren't decided about whether to copy it, or they wanted to put it in, but didn't have access to it, or perhaps it was in a previous manuscript, and they have decided to not copy it, but retain the layout of the previous manuscript.
董雅各 regardless the difference in formatting in the section above is very suspicious. I think they probably did know about that reading and that's why it's different

Gary Manning
Peter Alexander No good reason to see it as suspicious - just the list format found in other places in Sinaiticus.
I think Elijah Hixson is right. Here's how Sinaitus handles the list in Gal 5:22
1771547177278.png


....
董雅各
Yea, to be honest it’s hard to see how a fact like this could be justified to include in any normal commentary. But that doesn’t fix the problem that there doesn’t seem to be a go to resource for these more minute details.

William Varner ·
The first word of “ chapter five” (μετα) which is also the beginning of the Ammonian section, is also alone on its line. Then the first word of “chapter six” (με) is also alone in its line.


Timothy Mitchell
This is a common feature of Sinaiticus honestly

董雅各
Timothy Mitchell Yep, I didn't know that "list" was a thing in Koine Greek, I'd never heard of it before. Now I know to look out for it.
🙂


Timothy Mitchell
These "lists" can be found in the New Testament in Codex Sinaiticus in the following places (these are quire numbers as found in the facsimile).

Matt15:30 (Q75f1v);

Mark 3:16 (Q76f3v),
7:21-22 (Q76f6v),
10:19, 29 (Q76f8v);

Luke 3:23-38, the genealogy of Jesus, (Q77f7v),
6:14-16 (Q78f1r),
8:51 (Q78f3v),
14:13, 21 (Q78f8v);

John 5:3 (Q80f3r);
8:35, 38 (Q82f4r),
38-39 (Q82f4v),
13:7, 9, 13 (Q82f6r);

1 Cor 3:22-23 and 4:11-13 (Q82f8v),
6:9-10(Q83f1r),
12:13 (Q83f3v),
12:28-29 and 13:47 (Q83f4r),
15:39 (Q83f5v);

2 Cor 6:47 (Q83f7v) and
6:7-10 (Q83f8r),
11:26 (Q84f1v);

Gal 5:19 (Q84f4r) 5:19-21,22-23(Q84f4v);

2 Tim 3:24 (Q86f4r);

Titus 1:7-8 (Q86f5r),

Acts 1:13 (Q86f7r),
6:5 (Q87f2r);

1 Pet 3:8 (Q89f4r),
4:3 (Q89f4v);

2 Pet 1:5-7(Q89f5r);

Rev 18:13 (Q90f8r);

Barn.19.4, 20.1 (Q92f2r through Q92f2v)


Timothy Mitchell
This is a badly "cut-and-pasted" footnote from an early piece I wrote for a graduate student journal.

Eric Rowe
Timothy Mitchell Do you remember if you checked the OT for this too?

Timothy Mitchell
Eric Rowe I did some, but didn't document it. But it is by far more common in the New Testament.

Eric Rowe
Timothy Mitchell Your list is striking in how broadly it covers the NT plus Barnabas. Are these passages from different scribes following the same practice? Or are they all the same scribe?

Timothy Mitchell
Eric Rowe, if I am remembering correctly, scribe A copied all of the New Testament and Barnabas. Scribe D was διορθωσις who made some major corrections and wrote the titles and subscriptions, etc.
I believe that the "lists" are a feature of the manuscript vorlage. I also believe that the list format has something to do with the way the manuscript was used during reading events. That is, these words were emphasized in some way during reading.

Joshua Alexander Haskell
From what I heard, a scribe went back through and reapplied ink on all the words because they were fading, but he did not reapply ink on any of the words or passages that he did not find in his own manuscript. That is why the words are faded to the right. The ink is much older and was not restored. I think this is throughout the whole codex

Kurt Keller
Consult the Nestle/Aland apparatus:
[4] αγγελος γαρ (δε L; + κυριου A K L Δ ƒ13 it vgcl; + του θεου 1241)
κατα καιρον κατεβαινεν (ελουετο A K Ψ 579. 1241 r1 vgmss)
εν τη κολυμβηθρα και εταρασσε (εταρασσετο C3 078 c r1 vgcl)
το υδωρ· ο ουν πρωτος εμβας μετα την ταραχην του υδατος υγιης εγινετο ω (οιω A L) δηποτε (δΔ αν K; + ουν A) κατειχετο νοσηματι A C3 K L Γ Δ Θ Ψ 078vid ƒ1.13 565. 579. 700. 892. 1241. 1424 𝔐 (it) vgcl syp.h bopt; (Tert) ¦
txt 𝔓66.75 B C✱ D T Ws 33 f l q vgst syc co
 
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