heavenly witnesses - Facebook NT Textual Criticism discussions

Steven Avery

Facebook - NT Textual Criticism -.Feb, 2019

Good question form Suraj Lama.

Vulgate Prologue participants

Fine post from William Sandell on Vulgate Prologue. (William is a bit creedal in Trinitarian perspective.)
Complimented by Daniel Reardon https://www.facebook.com/daniel.reardon.1485
Humorous and strained Bill Brown conspiracy theory harumph
Jonathan Sheffield - Bill Brown thank you for reiterating your confirmation bias. Lol.
Phil Weingart - fine post

James William Sheffield - Athenagoras, Tertullian, and Origen

Suraj Lama
February 4 at 9:23 AM
Hi folks, just want some help with 1 John 5:7.
I understand it was added by some scribe to establish the trinity.
My question is, when Jerome started compiling the vulgate did he encounter this variation?
Can you suggest me some video/article on this topic.

Thank you in advance.
God bless.
William Sandell
Jerome wrote introductory prologues to several books of the Bible. In the Prologue to the Canonical Epistles he talks about 1 John 5:7 and laments it being excluded from manuscripts.

(Prologue Text)

Many have rejected the Prologue as a later addition. However, that was primarily based on the mistaken assumption that it was a 9th century addition (since in the past it wasn't found in any earlier copies of the Vulgate). However, the Prologue was later found in a 6th century Vulgate manuscript, which is a huge blow to the strength of that theory.

Personally, I believe Jerome wrote the Prologue and included 1 John 5:7 in his original Vulgate. I don't find the arguments against their inclusion convincing.
Phil Weingart
Bill Brown wrote, "gee, how did those "unfaithful translators" manage to get ahold of every single copy of Jerome's Vulgate and take it out?"

I don't understand the problem. Since Jerome wrote the prologue, I take it as obvious that the prologue could not have been written all that long after the Vulgate was produced. So I'm curious: just how many copies of the Vulgate would this "problem" have to explain? Moreover, it seems to me that Jerome could have written the prologue because he saw that in some (or perhaps all) copies of his Vulgate, copyists omitted the verse in question, so the answer to your "problem" seems to be that nobody had to get ahold of any copy to take anything out--they omitted the verse when they created the copies.
But I'm a novice in this field, and perhaps I'm missing something in your argument. So please, will you explain to me why you think that's actually a problem?
sub-thread on Latin mss

later, Nick Sayers sub-thread on 90% of Latin mss

sub-thread on Trinity addition question -

Tarek Saleeby
Timothy Berg gives accidental accretion theory

Cyprian quote and UBS apparatus editions - Tarek -
(compare and add to my pictures, and the apparatus rigging series.)

James Snapp gives his urls
(compare to our analysis of his positions)
Later, a bit more from James

Nick Sayers gives his
Daniel Meacham
It is in manuscripts as early as the 2nd century and is discussed by writers of the time. For example Clement of Alexandria! Why do you doubt?