Steven Avery
Administrator
Facebook - TRA
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1327328341446358/?comment_id=1328299348015924
Thomas is making a good point (noted in a Maurice Robinson paper), but he says, regarding mss. and the TR text?
1:36:20
“there are whole books that are exactly identical”
Is that true? Does he give examples?
========
Added: it looks like he is saying that they are identical to each other, not to a TR text
Yet he says..
“The TR is copied..”
“Copied exactly the same for whole books in the TR”
Yet there is no ms./TR comparison
==================
Interesting - he gives a book of Titus example at 1:23:00 and a couple of other examples.
Two questions:
1) which TR
2) do we know for sure these were not copied after TR editions?
3) he mentioned Titus for all the mss. Where is this written up? Pickering? No variants?
1:23:00
Titus
Ms 1072 - Mt. Athos
13th century - NT
Ms 2080 - Mt Patmos
14th century - most from Acts to Revelation
Ms 2587 - Vatican
11th century - most of Acts, all Epistles
Ms 2723 - Vissarion Greece = 2382 ?
This needs to be checked.
Dates from
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_New_Testament...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_minuscules_(2001–)
Ok, found it.
Examples of four Textus Receptus or Byzantine MSS that are exactly the same in the book of Titus
https://faithsaves.net/.../06/Exactly-identical-NT-MSS.pdf
=======
Are there TR-Byz differences in Titus beyond:
https://carm.org/.../differences-between-the-majority.../
Titus 2:8 M-text and NU both read “us” rather than “you”
But that list is about 350 variants, do we have the 1800+ list?
Nor this resource that includes that variant list (who compiled it?)
https://gatheringsinjesusname.org/.../WKincaid.20200202...
==========
https://www.bible-researcher.com/hodges-farstad.html
Here is a longer list, it looks like Titus is the most harmonious. Book of TR and Byz
Titus Title. Omit "The Epistle of Paul" before "to Titus". L T Tr A W WH N NA HF.
Titus 2:8. Read "say of us" instead of "say of you". G L T Tr A W WH N NA HF.
Titus Sub. Omit "It was written to Titus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Cretians, from Nieopolis of Macedonia". G L T W WH N NA HF.
Note that this is Hodges-Farsted and Scrivener. If Hoskier did Titus, that would help, also a check of HF to Robinson-Pierpont.
====
This may be the starting point.
Identical Copies (2008)
http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/.../ident...
If so, Wilbur Pickering should have been given credit! In the tape and the paper.
The comments are helpful.
Did Thomas Ross focus on Titus because the Greek Byzantine is closest to the TR there?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/467217787457422/posts/1327328341446358/?comment_id=1328299348015924
Thomas is making a good point (noted in a Maurice Robinson paper), but he says, regarding mss. and the TR text?
1:36:20
“there are whole books that are exactly identical”
Is that true? Does he give examples?
========
Added: it looks like he is saying that they are identical to each other, not to a TR text
Yet he says..
“The TR is copied..”
“Copied exactly the same for whole books in the TR”
Yet there is no ms./TR comparison
==================
Interesting - he gives a book of Titus example at 1:23:00 and a couple of other examples.
Two questions:
1) which TR
2) do we know for sure these were not copied after TR editions?
3) he mentioned Titus for all the mss. Where is this written up? Pickering? No variants?
1:23:00
Titus
Ms 1072 - Mt. Athos
13th century - NT
Ms 2080 - Mt Patmos
14th century - most from Acts to Revelation
Ms 2587 - Vatican
11th century - most of Acts, all Epistles
Ms 2723 - Vissarion Greece = 2382 ?
This needs to be checked.
Dates from
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_New_Testament...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_minuscules_(2001–)
Ok, found it.
Examples of four Textus Receptus or Byzantine MSS that are exactly the same in the book of Titus
https://faithsaves.net/.../06/Exactly-identical-NT-MSS.pdf
=======
Are there TR-Byz differences in Titus beyond:
https://carm.org/.../differences-between-the-majority.../
Titus 2:8 M-text and NU both read “us” rather than “you”
But that list is about 350 variants, do we have the 1800+ list?
Nor this resource that includes that variant list (who compiled it?)
https://gatheringsinjesusname.org/.../WKincaid.20200202...
==========
https://www.bible-researcher.com/hodges-farstad.html
Here is a longer list, it looks like Titus is the most harmonious. Book of TR and Byz
Titus Title. Omit "The Epistle of Paul" before "to Titus". L T Tr A W WH N NA HF.
Titus 2:8. Read "say of us" instead of "say of you". G L T Tr A W WH N NA HF.
Titus Sub. Omit "It was written to Titus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Cretians, from Nieopolis of Macedonia". G L T W WH N NA HF.
Note that this is Hodges-Farsted and Scrivener. If Hoskier did Titus, that would help, also a check of HF to Robinson-Pierpont.
====
This may be the starting point.
Identical Copies (2008)
http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/.../ident...
If so, Wilbur Pickering should have been given credit! In the tape and the paper.
The comments are helpful.
Did Thomas Ross focus on Titus because the Greek Byzantine is closest to the TR there?