Revelation conflations in Sinaiticus noted by Hoskier

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Adding to:

the conflations in Revelation 6 and 17:4 !
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/the-conflations-in-revelation-6-and-17-4.2898/


Theory: some in Hoskier are not taken by Pickering
Pickering has 3.

======================]

the Hoskier conflations in Revelation

Concerning the Text of the Apocalypse - Vol 1 and 2 - (1929)
https://archive.org/details/Hoskier-ConcerningTheTextOfTheApokalypse/
http://confessionalbibliology.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/HoskierApokalypseRevelation_text.pdf

p. 752
1689013401780.png


Note: Golden Rubrications

DRP - David Robert Palmer
conflation 17:4
http://www.bibletranslation.ws/trans/Revelation.pdf
conflation 2:15b
22:20 discusses 052 group
http://www.bibletranslation.ws/trans/revwgrk.pdf


Where does Hoskier have Sinaiticus junior to 052? (1678, 1778, 2080)

p. 57
1688949036757.png

maybe
http://www.bibletranslation.ws/tc.html
 

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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
CONFLATIONS - 4x ..

17:4 - good
17:15
9:20 - excellent

(4 maybe )
Rev 3:16
17:5

conflation 2:15b
22:20 discusses 052 group


XVIII
1688946317608.png


LIX. - Sinaiticus - REV 17:4 17:15
1688946009977.png

1688945946312.png


p. 47 - title? - Rev 16:17 18:11 12:18
1688946125056.png


p. 717 - title? 4 conflations
1688946250290.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
CONFLATION

p. xli (below in conflates)


XLVI
1688946627481.png


NOTE THAT SINAITICUS IS THE BIGGEST DEPARTURE FROM HIPPOLYTUS

LXV
1688946805616.png


12 - SINAITICUS conflation and junior to 119 123 - Rev 9:20 **
1688946890495.png


p . 177 - Sinaiticus Rev 17:4
1688946947602.png

p. 198 - Apoc 62 - Rev 7:4
1688947012732.png

p. 392 - ***** Sinaiticus at Rev 9:20
“Aleph had already conflated … Surely here is a case where we may say that our poor little overlooked xv-th cent. junior MS. And it’s group goes back of and behind Aleph !”
1688947105196.png


p. 533 - APOC 156 has conflation - Rev 3:16
1688947196455.png


p. 584 - APOC 178
1688947267605.png


p. 588 - APOC 178,- Rev 3:16 involves Sinaiticus.
1688947326986.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
P. 639 APOC 200 - Rev 3:16 - Sinaiticus is involved in some way
1688947511881.png

1688947552306.png


p. 729 - APOC 240 - Rev 17:5 Sinaiticus - junior to 240
Sinaiticus matches
203 (London British Library, Add MS 28816 ) 1886
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuscule_203
and
240 (Moscow) in 12 places (Athos to Moscow in 1600s
(178 in 5 of them)

“which seems to make the text of Aleph junior to (ms.) 240 ! ) - p.729
1688947640043.png


p. 739 - APOC - COMPLUTENSIAN GROUPING 10, etc (ms 59 only)
1688947742755.png


p . 748 - APOC 241 - Rev 21:24 Apoc 251 involves Erasmus
1688947793603.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

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"CONFLATES" - NONE HERE ARE SINAITICUS

XLI - PROLEGOMENA
1688975980330.png


12 - CURSIVE GROUPINGS
1688975737054.png


178 - APOC 56
1688976079063.png

322 = APOC 104
1688976146778.png


398 - APOC 119
1688976200448.png


487 APOC 143
1688976255520.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Steven Avery said:
Before all this, the Sinaiticus manuscript was just an unclean nothing, textually dismantled by Burgon (and Hoskier) …
Click to expand...

CARM
https://forums.carm.org/threads/cod...catalogue-s-plural.14121/page-13#post-1224874

Herman Charles Hoskier (1864-1938) gave analysis and made some comments that can help us on the true dating of Sinaiticus. Here are two:

Concerning the Text of the Apocalypse (1929)
Herman Hoskier
https://archive.org/details/Hoskier-ConcerningTheTextOfTheApokalypse/

“which seems to make the text of א junior to (ms.) 240 ! ” - p.729

“א had already conflated … Surely here is a case where we may say that our poor little overlooked xv-th cent. junior MS. and its group goes back of and behind א !” - p. 392

hmmmm … why would Sinaiticus be the junior manuscript compared to c. AD 1000-1300 manuscripts? And why so many conflations in the Sinaiticus Revelation? Conflations can be a result when there is established textual variation.

Remember, Sinaiticus was supposedly, theoretically, written (according to Tischendorf”s theories) at a time when Revelation was barely accepted as canonical by the Greek church.

==================================

DRP
p. 57
The MSS 1678, 1778, and 2080 are direct descendants of the Uncial 052, and are often quite instructive. (Hoskier says this 052 text is 50 years older than that of א.)
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
The additional Junior References do not tell us much about Sinaiticus
I stopped after the first 5 or so.

p. xv
1689012609823.png


p. lxiv
1689013004592.png


p. 186
1689013048984.png


p. 208



1689013108062.png


p. 363
1689013174497.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
159 -p.539
95 127 215 - stout with sinaiticus

======

F(-052). Group

=======

Aleph section

==

P.728
Group 052




======
P.271
Group. 052 and others
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
More on Hoskier

DRP


Hoskier in Volume 1 where he discusses 1678 says that the family of 052 1678 1778 2080 is a very old text type, and he estimates it to be about 50 years older than that of Codex Sinaiticus (ℵ). He gives some examples of where ℵ conflates the reading of the 052 family with that of another line

p. 728 starts his 240 == GA 1678

Search works with this PDF

The page on Archive.org is

p. 720 Apoc. 240
1726115183744.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
CONFLATION INVOLVING SINAITICUS IN HOSKIER
p. lix
1726114508563.png


p. 12
1726114596312.png


p. 177
1726114685047.png


p. 392
1726114792817.png


p. 588 Apoc 178
1726114905574.png


p. 639 - Apoc 200

1726115004260.png

1726115061295.png
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Need 50 year quote in Sinaiticus!

It is a paragraph on p.728

1726169617788.png




1726169305424.png

1726169429108.png


(continues)

Plus these two

“which seems to make the text of א junior to (ms.) 240 ! ” - p.729

“א had already conflated … Surely here is a case where we may say that our poor little overlooked xv-th cent. junior MS. and its group goes back of and behind א !” - p. 392

==========

David Robert Palmer

Hoskier in Volume 1 where he discusses 1678 says that the family of 052 1678 1778 2080 is a very old text type, and he estimates it to be about 50 years older than that of Codex Sinaiticus (ℵ). He gives some examples of where ℵ conflates the reading of the 052 family with that of another line

==========

Question
It seems that the reason these late medieval manuscripts are considered to be an ancient text line is that they contribute one part of Sinaiticus conflations.

Beyond that, nothing is noted that marks them as a very early text-line. If Sinaiticus is misdated, they would return to normal late medieval manuscripts.

Agree?

========

Elliott article may have x-ref

052 - (Hoskier F) Athos - Panteleimon - 1 chapter extant - Codex Athous Panteleimon
1678 - (Hoskier 240) Athos, Panteleimon (wrong in Wikipedia) (derived from F, 052, a fuller copy)
1778 - (Hoskier 203) Thessaloniki - Vlatedes Monastery
2080 - (Hoskier 178) Patmos, Greece, monastery of St. John the theologian

1726170192879.png

1726170618561.png


1726169725709.png

1726169849733.png

1726170327238.png

240
1726170440668.png



The Beatty Papyrus of Revelation and Hoskier's Edition (1934)
Harry A. Sanders

1726171115451.png


Next after cursive 200 in nearness to our papyrus text stands
group 178. This group consists of three manuscripts, 178, 203,
and 240, together with the fragment F. Manuscript 38 is nearly
related. Ms. 178 is fourteenth century or earlier, and preserved
on Patmos. Manuscript 203 is a little later but from a monastery
near Saloniki. It is not a sister manuscript to 178 but stands
between it and manuscript 38. In addition to this distinctive
text it carries the commentaries of Oecumenius and Arethas.
Manuscript 240 also contains the same commentaries, but is
from the fifteenth century and found on Athos. As regards text
it seems a true copy of F, the four leaves of which are still found
in the same monastery on Athos. F, a tenth century manuscript,
was the oldest and best of this group. Manuscripts 240 and 203
reproduce it most nearly. Manuscript 38 varies from type most.
Hoskier lists the family as group 38, when this manuscript agrees,
otherwise as group 178. I have followed him in my count of
agreements, though I would prefer to assign but one name to the
group. As the table gives but 119 agreements of group 38 with
P47, it follows that this manuscript varies from the type of the
whole family 34 times in the 7 chapters compared. The present
location of the various manuscripts of the group gives no hint
as to the original home of this text, but my comparisons point
definitely to an early Egyptian type. It agrees with

א quite as closely as does P47. I noted 14 variants for which ​

א and group 178 (38) are the sole authorities. In 11 of these manuscript 38​

is opposed, so it is evident that many older readings of the family
were removed from this representative by some corrector.

=========

Cursive 200
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
1776 - “such a late ms why bother”
Question on verses

1776

Search “GA 1776”
Manuscripts of the Book of Revelation: New Philology, Paratexts, Reception (2020)
Garrick V. Allen
https://academic.oup.com/book/33797/chapter-abstract/288566779?redirectedFrom=fulltext

“GA1776”
byfaithweunderstand.com

Answering a Few More Objections to Authorized: Part 4, The New King James Version Uses Critical Text Readings | By Faith We Understand

I’m in the midst of a short series answering objections to my viewpoint in Authorized: The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible, objections that for various reasons didn’t make it into the book already. (Most objections I hear I already addressed.) Last Monday, we looked at Objection 1:…
byfaithweunderstand.com
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Oecumenius book

Hi Kirk, this one has a search (e.g. Latin hits) but did not hit on conflation
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031829669&seq=7

books.google.com

Exegesis and Hermeneutics in the Churches of the East

Exegesis and Hermeneutics in the Churches of the East contains the proceedings of the Bible in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Traditions unit of the Society of Biblical Literature's (SBL) 2007 meeting in San Diego, California. Biblical professors and scholars from the Eastern and Oriental...
books.google.com

1726145951070.png

English text
John Neville Suggit
books.google.com

Commentary on the Apocalypse

This is the first complete translation in English of Oecumenius'scommentary, which is the first known Greek commentary on the bookof Revelation. Written in the sixth century but discovered only at thebeginning of the twentieth, it presents a fascinating view of a writer whostrove to be faithful...
books.google.com
 
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