Tony Bushby and "fable of Christe" Leo X quote

[Steven Avery]

CARM

One moment, please...

Source

• "It has served us well, this myth of Christ."
  • Widely attributed to Leo X, the earliest known source of this statement is actually a polemical work by the Protestant John Bale, the anti-Catholic Acta Romanorum Pontificum, which was first translated from Latin into English as The Pageant of the Popes in 1574: "For on a time when a cardinall Bembus did move a question out of the Gospell, the Pope gave him a very contemptuous answer saying: All ages can testifie enough how profitable that fable of Christe hath ben to us and our companie." The Pope in this case being Leo X. Later accounts of it exist, as recorded by Vatican Librarian, Cardinal Baronius in the Annales Ecclesiastici (1597) a 12-volume history of the Church.
  • In a more modern polemic, "The Criminal History of the Papacy" by Tony Bushby, in Nexus Magazine Volume 14, Number 3 (April - May 2007), it is stated that "The pope's pronouncement is recorded in the diaries and records of both Pietro Cardinal Bembo (Letters and Comments on Pope Leo X, 1842 reprint) and Paolo Cardinal Giovio (De Vita Leonis Decimi..., op. cit.), two associates who were witnesses to it.

First, I would not mind one bit if this were true.
However, historical accuracy is important.

Your Wikipedia source said this is:

Disputed.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X
And that is a bit of an understatement.

Little of this really pans out.

We are looking at a paragraph on Wiki followed by:

The Criminal History of the Papacy - Part 3 of 3 (2007)
Tony Bushby
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican30c.htm

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You can work with:

John Bale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bale

Acta romanorum Pontificum (1558)
By John Bale
https://books.google.com/books?id=OtE5AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA381
Leo Decimus

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Nothing Tony Bushby writes can be taken at face. He picks up information from automatic writing and basically just makes things up. My letter on his nonsense about the Forged Origins of the New Testament was published in 2007.

This will help you understand his methodology.

BCHF
Fakes Source Citations
http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=422

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Did Pope Leo X say that Christianity is a fable?
Skeptics Stack Exchange
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/30416/did-pope-leo-x-say-that-christianity-is-a-fable

Note that the Baronius

Annales ecclesiastici
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annales_Ecclesiastici

was continued by Bzovius, a point missed when it is said Baronius only did 12 volumes through 1198.

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When you search, if you include "Roger Pearse" in the search, generally you will find quality info. He had very nicely debunked a similar quote used against Eusebius, so I figgered he was on this one.

Roger Pearse discussion on Google Groups
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.history.ancient/c/NiKwZ9dNcVE?hl=en#07f984fd0ecf6926

His post works with Johann Burchard and the idea that this goes to Alexander VI, not Leo X.

Tekton (James Patrick Holding)
https://www.tektonics.org/lp/popeleox.php

JPH works through many of the claimed sources.

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[Steven Avery]

See Roger Pearse on Sergerus and more

 

[Steven Avery]

From Ahmed Badache from Bushby

As was the case with the New Testament, so also were damaging writings of early "Church Fathers" modified in centuries of copying, and many of their records were intentionally rewritten or suppressed. Adopting the decrees of the Council of Trent (1545-63), the Church subsequently extended the process of erasure and ordered the preparation of a special list of specific information to be expunged from early Christian writings (Delineation of Roman Catholicism, Rev. Charles Elliott, DD, G. Lane & P. P. Sandford, New York, 1842, p. 89; also, The Vatican Censors, Professor Peter Elmsley, Oxford, p. 327, pub. date n/a). In 1562, the Vatican established a special censoring office called Index Expurgatorius. Its purpose was to prohibit publication of "erroneous passages of the early Church Fathers" that carried statements opposing modern-day doctrine. When Vatican archivists came across "genuine copies of the Fathers, they corrected them according to the Expurgatory Index" (Index Expurgatorius Vaticanus, R. Gibbings, ed., Dublin, 1837; The Literary Policy of the Church of Rome, Joseph Mendham, J. Duncan, London, 1830, 2nd ed., 1840; The Vatican Censors, op. cit., p. 328). This Church record provides researchers with "grave doubts about the value of all patristic writings released to the public" (The Propaganda Press of Rome, Sir James W. L. Claxton, Whitehaven Books, London, 1942, p. 182). Important for our story is the fact that the Encyclopaedia Biblica reveals that around 1,200 years of Christian history are unknown: "Unfortunately, only few of the records [of the Church] prior to the year 1198 have been released". It was not by chance that, in that same year (1198), Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) suppressed all records of earlier Church history by establishing the Secret Archives (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. xv, p. 287). Some seven-and-a-half centuries later, and after spending some years in those Archives, Professor Edmond S. Bordeaux wrote How The Great Pan Died. In a chapter titled "The Whole of Church History is Nothing but a Retroactive Fabrication", he said this (in part): "The Church ante-dated all her late works, some newly made, some revised and some counterfeited, which contained the final expression of her history ... her technique was to make it appear that much later works written by Church writers were composed a long time earlier, so that they might become evidence of the first, second or third centuries." (How The Great Pan Died, op. cit., p. 46) Supporting Professor Bordeaux's findings is the fact that, in 1587, Pope Sixtus V (1585-90) established an official Vatican publishing division and said in his own words, "Church history will be now be established ... we shall seek to print our own account"Encyclopédie, Diderot, 1759). Vatican records also reveal that Sixtus V spent 18 months of his life as pope personally writing a new Bible and then introduced into Catholicism a "New Learning" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Farley ed., vol. v, p. 442, vol. xv, p. 376). The evidence that the Church wrote its own history is found in Diderot's Encyclopédie, and it reveals the reason why Pope Clement XIII (1758-69) ordered all volumes to be destroyed immediately after publication in 1759.

For example, "Index Expurgatorius Vaticanus" by R. Gibbings can be downloaded from archive.org if I'm not mistaken


"The Literary Policy of the Church of Rome" by Joseph Mendham also is available

but as you said, Bushby again could have mixed here facts with fiction

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Hi, Before you make a negative opinion about me (just because I used to be once an Islamic apologist), let me tell you a few words about myself. My mother is Polish (Christian), and my father is Algerian (Muslim), and I grew up in Poland for most of my life. My native language is, of course, Polish but while living a few years in Algeria I’ve learned also Arabic (although not perfect but good enough to read it and write it). I adopted Islam the religion of my father since for some reasons I find it more attractive than Christianity. Sincerely speaking, I am not a devoted believer but some 10 years ago I became interested in religious topics by participating in various discussions in the forums. In the beginning, naturally, I tried to defend Islam with all my efforts even without having basic knowledge. As you probably know, religion has a great impact on the sphere of people's private beliefs and worldview in general. I think most of us, in a certain period of our life, was in some way a conservative defender of the faith in which we grew up. However, sooner or later, perhaps guided by common sense, I had to learn to throw away from my heart all hatred towards other religions and be gentle and respectful. After 10 years, I have to admit that I hate my previous attitude, being only subjective rather than objective, critically rational and impartial. There is nothing bad in apology unless it is used reasonably in such a manner so no one's feelings can be hurt.