Old Latin summary

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Pure Bible Forum
index of Old Latin - Speculun, Friesinger, Leon, and more

placing Leon Palimpsest, Freisinger Fragment, Speculum et al as Old Latin, Vulgate, hybrid
https://www.purebibleforum.com/inde...culum-et-al-as-old-latin-vulgate-hybrid.2543/

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ADDED: Aug 1, 2024 - see note on post #7

URL

Laparola
http://www.laparola.net/greco/index.php?rif1=69&rif2=5:7
http://www.laparola.net/greco/index.php?rif1=69&rif2=5:7

Waltz
http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/Versions.html#OldLatin

Old Latin Witnesses -- Catholics
this list omits some "Old Latin" witnesses cited in UBS4. Examples include are dem in Acts. The reason is that these are actually Vulgate witnesses with occasional Old Latin readings; they will be discussed under the Vulgate.

Scrivener (text below)
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650

Vulgate Prologue list from Travis
http://books.google.com/books?id=nf0qAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA53
http://books.google.com/books?id=nf0qAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA53

Notes on the early history of the Vulgate Gospels - John Chapman
http://books.google.com/books?id=XYpAAAAAIAAJ
http://books.google.com/books?id=XYpAAAAAIAAJ
Note: Maynard, p. 344. This was compiled by W. Theile. I did not take down the legend to decipher those abbreviations. But I translated a Spanish article where they are nearly all explained.

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Contra

ar = Book of Armagh - Dublinensis Dubliniensis listed under Vulgate by Waltz

http://books.google.com/books?id=Drk7AAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA455
the disputed clause is wanting in the copy of Jerome's Latin Version of the New Testament, found in the celebrated "Book of Armagh," a precious manuscript written in the seventh century by Aldus, bishop of Slepten ...in pure Irish characters, intermixed with Greek.

Scrivener reference below.

==================================================

Pro


(placed with church writers)

Here are the Old Latin mss that are listed in the apparatus as with the heavenly witnesses.

it-c Colbertinus
it-dem Demidovianus
it-div Divionensis
it-l Legionensis
it-m Speculum
it-p Perpignan
it-q Monacensis/Friesinger
(now it-r 64)

There is one contra
it-ar Book of Armagh

Not in the apparatus but worthy of inclusion

leon1 - Lemovicensis - pro
leon 2 - margin
harl ( one or two Harleian ms)

c M
m - 5-9 42 Speculum
q - - 5-7 44 Monacensis/Freisinger - Symbol used for r in UBS4.
l - 7 48 Legionensis- Palimpsest .. said to be close to the Liber Comicus (t)
div - 12 52 Divionensis
dem - 12-13 53 Demidovianus (MIA - Metzger 1977)
c - 12-13c 53 Colbertinus -
p - - 13 56 Perpignan - Perpininiaus - copied from a 6th c. manuscript - E. S. Buchanan - JTS - 1911

QUESTION -
Speculum - multiple Speculum manuscripts ? - is more than one early ? perhaps Speculum m does have multiple citations.
What is ff .. some notes plan to be condensed in own post

c M Beuron
m - 5-9 42 Speculum
q - - 5-7 44 13 Monacensis/Freisinger - Symbol used for r in UBS4.
l - 7 48 67 Legionensis- Palimpsest .. said to be close to the Liber Comicus (t)
div - 12 52 Divionensis
dem - 12-13 53 Demidovianus (MIA - Metzger 1977)
c - 12-13c 53 Colbertinus -
p - - 13 56 Perpignan - Perpininiaus - copied from a 6th c. manuscript - E. S. Buchanan - JTS - 1911

===============================================================

Total count about 7 to 1, if Armagh is listed Old Latin , with 1 or 2 margin possibilities below

======================

FIVE THAT SOMETIMES MIGHT BE GIVEN IN OLD LATIN LISTS, or OTHER NUANCES LIKE LECTIONARY
NOT IN ABOVE APPARATUS

=====================================================

LEON MS

Lemovicensis (leon1) - yes, in varied/mutilated form .. Scrivener
(Placed under Vulgate by Waltz - L = Lemovicensis IXc "Mixed" text, containing a part of 1 John 5:7)
Maynard p. 51
923 AD.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BFtQOr7zsnYC&pg=PA87
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
leon 2 - margin only ("Old Latin being replaced by the Vulgate" - Scrivener)
930 AD -
Maynard p. 51
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA360
These are pretty much agreed upon, the issues are more on category.

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HARLEIAN MS

harl 2 - Harleian 1772 - VIII -
750 AD -
Maynard p. 50 - yes per Scrivener
http://books.google.com/books?id=iBcXAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA355

Would like to confirm this as a yes. Is there the Harleianis lectionary entry ?
Needs more research to confirm.

Porter - Textual Criticism
http://books.google.com/books?id=QRIaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA502
http://books.google.com/books?id=QRIaAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA502

So Porter says there are two Harleian manuscripts, one with margin, one in the text !

Pohle says no on one Harleian - no specific ms.
http://books.google.com/books?id=iN4OAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA36
http://books.google.com/books?id=iN4OAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA36

===============================================================

Tepl -
Maynard p. 61-65 - not in apparatus.
"No scholarly work in print has ever acknowledged the Comma in the Tepl. "

===============================================

Plain Introduction -
Scrivener
http://books.google.com/books?id=hZQHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA650#v=onepage&q&f=false

This is pretty sold that the lectionaries were updated with the Reformation text.




The 10th century is often a real cutoff-point, since the Uncials in Greek become cursives and numbers increase.
Thus these additional manuscripts come to play in Latin ms, should check which have Prologue, perhaps in Travis info above. On the Vulgate, here, only the positive info is being given

VULGATE PRO

VERSE PROLOGUE MYN

Fuldensis 6th (Prologue only) NO....... YES p. 46
Wizanburgensis 8th YES
Ulmensis 8th c.........................................YES p.50
Sangallensis 8thc ... (maybe 5th).................. .YES..........YES............RB Franco-Span (note Brown mentioning plural) Theodulphianus 8th-9th.......................................YES. ............................RB Franco-Spanish
Cavensis 9th c.........................................YES ............................RB-Spanish La Cava
Toletanus 10th c maybe written 8th.............YES.....................p.51 RB-Spanish- (leading) - 988 AD
Complutensis 10th ..(or 9th) .............................YES.............................RB 1st Bible of Alcala....

Jenkins Bede ms - Maynard p. 50
MS BALL 177 12 c......(Bede)...........................YES...................p.239 (Westcott? Naples?)

Karolinus 9th c MS. 10546 Bible-Charlem) (?) the Bible of Grandval

Shalom,
Steven
 
Last edited:
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
From 2014

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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
From my paper: Fragmenta Frisingensia (401-700 AD) •
The Codex Frisingensis, designated by r and q or 64 (in Beuron system), is a 6th or 7th century Latin manuscript of the New Testament. The text, written on vellum, is a version of the old Latin. The manuscript contains the text of the Pauline epistles with numerous lacunae[1] on only 26 parchment leaves.[2] The manuscript is variously dated. Vogels and Wordsworth dated it to the 5th or 6th century, Merk to the 7th century, Bover and Kilpatrick to the 7th or 8th century. (Frisingensia Fragmenta. Wikipedia. <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisingensia_Fragmenta>). • Contents: Rom 14:10-15:13; 1 Cor 1:1-27; 1:28-3:5; 6:1-7:7; 15:1-1:43; 16:12-27; 2 Cor 1:1-2:10; 3:17-5:1; 7:10-8:12; 9:10-11:21; 12:14-13:10; Gal 2:5-4:3; 6:5-17; Eph 1:1-13; 1:16-2:16; 6:24; Phil 1:1-20; 1 Tim 1:12-2:15; 5:18-6:13; Hbr 6:6-7:5; 7:8-8:1; 9:27-11:7.[3] 1 John 3:8 - 5:9.

[Fragmenta Frisingensia. Freising Fragments] Volume / Number: 9 / 1286a; CLA 1286a; Script: Uncial; Date: VI² (551 - 600); Origen and Provenance: Written possibly in Spain, to judge by certain palaeographical peculiarities, but possibly in Africa, to judge by the nature of the text and its relation to St Augustine. The leaves were taken from medieval bindings of books from the Freising cathedral library. The Göttweig leaf comes from a manuscript of the Commentarii Notarum Tironianarum acquired by Abbot Gotfried Bessel between 1742–1749. <Fragmenta Frisingensia. Freising Fragments. Earlier Latin Manuscripts. <elmss.nuigalway.ie/catalogue/1778>) • [Wordsworth & White Latin NT] 23. r. Fragmenta Frisingensia s. V-VI. (Novum Testamentum Domini nostri Jesu Christi latine, secundum editionem Sancti Hieronymi, Vol. 3. Actus Apostolorum; Epistula Jacobi; Epistula Petri Prima; Epistula Petri Secunda; Epistula Johannis Prima; Epistula Johannis Secunda; Epistula Johannis Tertia; Epistula Judae; Apocalypsis Johannis, edited by Wordsworth, 1889, vol 3, p. 338.)

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Here is Another Latin MSS from my paper:

León Palimpsest (Palimpsestus Legionensis) (601-700 AD) • The León Palimpsest, designated l or 67 (in the Beuron system), is a 7th-century Latin manuscript pandect of the Christian Bible conserved in the cathedral of León, Spain. The text, written on vellum, is in a fragmentary condition. In some parts it represents the Old Latin version, while in others it follows Jerome's Vulgate. The codex is a palimpsest.[1] From its location in León, this palimpsest is sometimes referred to as the Codex Legionensis; but this name is more commonly applied to the 10th-century Vulgate Bible at the Basílica de San Isidoro, León (133 in the Beuron system). Nor should the León palimpsest be confused with another 10th-century pandect in León, of which the second volume is conserved in the cathedral archive and is number 193 in the Beuron system. The text of the New Testament has survived on 40 leaves of the codex. The leaves measure 37 by 24 cm. The text is written in 2 columns of 38-55 lines per page.[2] The text is written in a semi-uncial hand, in Visigothic characters. The fragments contain texts of James 4:4 - 1 Peter 3:14; 1 John 1:5 - 3 John 10; Acts 7:27-11:13; 14:21-17:25. It contains also a fragment of the Books of Maccabees.[3] The text of the codex represents a Vulgate with Old Latin elements, especially in the First Epistle of John.[1] The biblical underwriting has been dated by F. H. A. Scrivener, Samuel Berger, and Bruce M. Metzger [1][5] to the 7th century.[6] It was discovered by Rudolf Beer. It was examined and described by Samuel Berger[1][7] It was examined by Bonifatius Fischer and Thiele.[3] Fischer edited its text in 1963.[5] Currently it is housed in the archive of León Cathedral, where it is designated as codex 15.[3] The manuscript is cited in several critical texts of the Greek and Latin New Testament.[6] (León palimpsest. Wikipedia. <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/León_palimpsest>) • [H.A.G. Houghton: Leon Palimpsest] VL 67 León, Archivo Catedralicio, 15 Palimpsestus Legionensis. Remains of a Latin Bible (epcar). Copied in the seventh century, possibly in Toledo. Palimpsested in the tenth century with Rufinus’ translation of Eusebius’ Historia ecclesiastica in Visigothic minuscule. Spanish half-uncial script. The original manuscript consisted of around 322 folios, of which 48 remain (original size at least 48x35 cm). Two columns of 71–6 lines (36½x28½ cm). Parchment; black ink. (Houghton, The Latin New Testament, 2017, p. 240) • [H.A.G. Houghton] A different combination of Old Latin and the Vulgate (of Jerome) is seen in VL 67 (the Leon Palimpsest). This is the oldest surviving Latin biblical pandect, a large format manuscript copied in Toledo in the seventh century but re-used three centuries later. The surviving pages show that, while its text of the Pauline Epistles is Vulgate, the Catholic Epistles and part of Acts have an Old Latin affiliation with similarities to Cyprian and [PAGE 64] Tyconius, as well as the fifth century Portuguese writer Orosius (Contra Varimadum). (Houghton, The Latin New Testament, 2017, p. 63-64)

Wikipedia : I did notice how robust the Comma page is becoming. No doubt thanks to your good work on it. The evidences are really growing.

And GET THIS in the Review of the Freisinger MSS: •

It has been conclusively shewn by Porson that the text is never quoted by writers who lived before Jerome. (Review, The Theological Review: A Quarterly Journal of Religious Thought and Life edited by Williams & Norgate, 1876, vol 13, p. 444)

SA note: the contra and textcrit delusion
 
Last edited:
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Administrator
Some that are Old Latin in the apparatus have more of a Vulgate heritage in the 1 John 5 section.

A good example is Colbertinus, where on Aug 1, 2024 we got the transcription, which has "Christ is the truth" in v. 6 so is more a Vulgate heritage.

Transcription from Mike Ferrando with the skills of Sarah van der Pas
https://www.purebibleforum.com/index.php?threads/colbertinus-at-the-french-library.4454/#post-18573

In 2021 it was placed on PBF that it would be necessary to have the transcription of the text to know definitively.
https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...edhacker-bill-brown-euthymius.1822/#post-7266
 
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